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May 20th, 2017, 05:10 PM   #31
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It has been reported that the 3 dissenters were Lorenzo, Vinales and Baz.......
If this is true, then Pedrosa had to be a dissenter in reality, if not in words. Dani's weight and his more gradual use of brakes would necessitate a softer carcass to heat the tire and trail deeper into the corner.

Immediately, the paranoid/conspiracy part of my brain went - "Ah-ha, Val knows Mav and Jorge don't like the tire." It is easy to create these Russian tire plots, I tell ya' whaaat.
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May 20th, 2017, 05:37 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
If this is true, then Pedrosa had to be a dissenter in reality, if not in words. Dani's weight and his more gradual use of brakes would necessitate a softer carcass to heat the tire and trail deeper into the corner.

Immediately, the paranoid/conspiracy part of my brain went - "Ah-ha, Val knows Mav and Jorge don't like the tire." It is easy to create these Russian tire plots, I tell ya' whaaat.
I hadn't realised Vinales was a dissenter. That makes it more like the 2012 vote, because JL is already not a contender for the title this year, while Vinales obviously very much is.

I really don't see how it is reasonable for him to possibly have to make major changes to the way he sets up his bike and possibly to his riding style mid season. What is the point of all the work he (obviously successfully) put in to pre-season testing if the tyre can be capriciously changed mid season, majority vote or not?

Just have both tyres available going forward this season, withdraw it for the following season. Whether or not Dorna were trying to finagle the season outcome this time, it is fairly obvious that tyre votes such as this and the one in 2012 are at least a possible mechanism for doing so.
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Last edited by michaelm; May 21st, 2017 at 05:28 AM.
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May 20th, 2017, 06:15 PM   #33
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Don't think 19 riders have chosen the 06 tire entirely because of Rossi's indication. Lorenzo is just being Lorenzo, as always.

But, anyway, Michelin could bring both constructions to the race and let it be.

Michelin sucks a lot.
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May 20th, 2017, 06:15 PM   #34
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.........
I really don't see how it is reasonable for him to possibly have to make major changes to the way he sets up his bike and posssibly to his riding style mid season. What is the point of all the work he (obviously successfully) put in to pre-season testing if the tyre can be capriciously changed mid season, majority vote or not?

Just have both tyres available going forward this season,,,,,,
I am unable to make sound arguments against your points. This seems similar to the 2012 scenario does it not? How is it even remotely possible that the primary construction of the front tire is being changed at this point in the season? It is very odd without disastrous incidents like we saw last year, where safety really was an issue. It is baffling to me, and I understand more all the time why the tire conspiracies germinate. The whole tire story in MotoGP defies logical thinking sometimes.
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May 20th, 2017, 06:26 PM   #35
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I think this comes down to Valentino originally requesting it. The other riders have struggled(and this includes Maverick) with the front tyre at times due to it truthfully just being a shit tyre for race distance.

I have to wonder if Mavs vote was because he prefers the 06 tyre or because he knows that the 70 tyre will allow Marauez to be more aggressive on the front end. I think it's possible it's a bit of both.
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May 21st, 2017, 12:10 AM   #36
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It's marvelous how this goes down. They (Dorna & Michelin acting as one entity) really do take all the spectators for fools.

The "Special" Tire 70 (ah the irony) 'has won by democratic vote'! Ah well then, it's as legit as Kim Dong Un's "election" (officially an actual democratic event). Isn't 'democracy' grand? Let's remember, this is the democratically introduced tire, by 1 vote (see Rossiís own admission in the pre-event press conference) thus tire---forcefed in the 11th hour at Argentina, surrounded by multiple shifting explanations and debunked half truths that trickled out and with the aid of Kropotkin's piece which could have been titled: 'no, no, no, no, this isn't a tire conspiracy, trust me'; this tire which the riders at the Safety Mutineers Commission rejected because it was, oh how did one rider put it...'hey Capirossi, you don't help me when I have a shit day' ...obviously a tire intended to favor a one Valentino Rossi, democracy folks!

SportRider's Manuel Pecino was correct in asserting after the tire debacle of Argentina, that this wasn't the last we'd hear about "special tire" code 70.

Here you go boys, we got 2 tires for you to test. Now ya'll get to "vote". Because we love democracy, and so when we announced on our PPV channel, limiting the press release but being shamed into releasing it, whilst trying to suppress scrutiny (oh as if the GP media are investigative reporters) we shall announce to the world, democracy has prevailed.

The Democratic Process 101:

So here are your choices:

A: "special tire 70"

B: "a tire that's almost identical but ever so slightly inferior to 'special tire 70".

Ok, please submit your votes.

The results are in: "special tire 70" WINS by democratic vote!

It's not a (moto) matter of Rossi already now having an unsuitable tire, he will rarely be off the podium by design. It's a (moto) matter of fine tuning, or as one Safety Mutineers Commission member said "he (Rossi) already has enough here to do what he wants.Ē!


Jerez 17 was not an M1 one problem as many hypothesized, it was simply Michelin not nailing the tire intended for Rossi. Maverick had to bite his tongue (in quite stunning fashion, yet the message was deafening) about the tire manipulation! We should remember, as did Marquez on a previous occasion "we all know why", it's something that Lorenzo knew all to well and alluded to it in a feature video. Miraculously the M1 err is suddenly fixed just in time for the 'French' GP.

Carmelo is calm. If Rossi isn't issued this year's title, it's not for Dorna trying. It's not enough that RD has shifted the paradigm of what it means to conduct 'racing' (shelve the Sepang debacle) looking no further than COTA where a penalty is no longer a deterrent but rather as Kropotkin put it, "a time correction" (because everyone knows that's how they 'correct' the nanoseconds gained in a jump start, right? Rossi has skewed the very acceptable perceptions of what it means to race: cutting the track to avoid overtaking, acceptable. Notch up another erosion to racing, add in one more not-so-subtle advantage on the track. It's the same with this ever-changing tire, "democracy" at its finest. The great thing is Rossi has found ways to screw up his accumulated advantages since Carmelo acted as his sport agent and signed him up to Yamaha, subsidize salary and all.
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Last edited by Jumkie; May 21st, 2017 at 12:54 AM.
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May 21st, 2017, 12:38 AM   #37
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True for Lorenzo, and yes, Dovi is always honest as well. Valentino and Marquez are actually very similar in their ways, whatever you want to associate them with. Actually the young champ (whom I also admire wholeheartedly as a rider) has probably surpassed the old master in more ways than one.
J4, with due respect...

This is a thinly 'Val'd attempt at suggesting Marquez is far more MachiaVALlian than Rossi. Because...Marc turned up with doctored papers in hand to prove the wily young faux had helped Lorenzo at Phillip Island by...taking points away from Jorge. Ah yes, Marc, that real crafty genius that deceitful 'smiling' lad. Surely Marc faked those fan pics of VR in his bedroom as an alibi many years into the future.

Rossi admitted in the past to misdirection in tire preference to thwart his rivals-FACT. Misdirection, a skill used by magicians to fool people. You may perceive Rossi's misdirection as a fantastic coup that he pulled off, but I ask you a serious question: do you see that by knowingly using his considerable influence to pick an inferior tire that he put less experienced fellow competitors in danger? You probably have never looked at it in these terms. Probably many reading this post have not considered the unintended subtle consequences and real potential in Rossiís decision to pick an inferior tire because he made the decision based on a Machiavellian scheme.
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May 21st, 2017, 12:49 AM   #38
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call me a fool, but I think "70"tyre vote is fair, no doubt about that. There isn't Carmello and Rossi's threesome with Uccio.

If so, then Uccio must've been busy serving 19 more guys at once.
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May 21st, 2017, 01:03 AM   #39
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call me a fool, but I think "70"tyre vote is fair, no doubt about that. There isn't Carmello and Rossi's threesome with Uccio.

If so, then Uccio must've been busy serving 19 more guys at once.
I don't because it screws Vinales for being better at utilising the tyre they mostly all voted for the first time, pre-season.


Have both tyres available for the rest of the season unless there is a genuine safety issue is the only fair thing imo as I and others have said. I have no problem with the new construction tyre being the choice for next season as a result of a pre-season majority decision, but not after a season has started when a contending rider has proven more proficient at utilising the existing tyre.

If you want a series where they handicap bikes as the season progresses like WSBK prior to DORNA buying that series fine, but that is not my idea of premier class gp bike racing, and handicapping riders/riding styles is even more malodorous, again imo.

Last edited by michaelm; May 21st, 2017 at 01:15 AM.
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May 21st, 2017, 01:19 AM   #40
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Quote:
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J4, with due respect...

This is a thinly 'Val'd attempt at suggesting Marquez is far more MachiaVALlian than Rossi. Because...Marc turned up with doctored papers in hand to prove the wily young faux had helped Lorenzo at Phillip Island by...taking points away from Jorge. Ah yes, Marc, that real crafty genius that deceitful 'smiling' lad. Surely Marc faked those fan pics of VR in his bedroom as an alibi many years into the future.

Rossi admitted in the past to misdirection in tire preference to thwart his rivals-FACT. Misdirection, a skill used by magicians to fool people. You may perceive Rossi's misdirection as a fantastic coup that he pulled off, but I ask you a serious question: do you see that by knowingly using his considerable influence to pick an inferior tire that he put less experienced fellow competitors in danger? You probably have never looked at it in these terms. Probably many reading this post have not considered the unintended subtle consequences and real potential in Rossiís decision to pick an inferior tire because he made the decision based on a Machiavellian scheme.
Really fancy narrative, but I didn't say what you imply. What I say is that Rossi and Marquez share a stronger than average self-promoting ego-centric drive that can make them bend truth anf fairness to their own ambition, jealousy, or spite. Mind that nobody in that circus is immune from that, but theze two stand out. Ah, by the way, whatever we discuss here are always opinions...
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