MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

MotoGP MotoGP Forum - MotoGP Class Motorcycle Racing Forum

Like Tree7Likes
  • 1 Post By JPSLotus
  • 3 Post By JKant
  • 1 Post By JKant
  • 1 Post By ananthakannan
  • 1 Post By Gaz
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
April 12th, 2017, 06:25 AM   #1
Senior Member
JPSLotus's Avatar
Joined: Apr 2015
From: Madison Square Garden 1973

Posts: 5,342
Likes: 2575

The ideal tire scenario

The current unfolding tire saga highlights the problem with control tires in a nutshell. In theory they should be designed to accommodate the variety of machines on the grid. In practice, it often turns into a situation of them only benefiting a couple of machines and riders. Subsequent changes always help some riders and leave others out in the cold.

So that leads to my question, what do you think the ideal tire scenario should be for GP?

I feel tires should always be supplied under a tire war scenario. This allows for a greater likelihood of teams having an opportunity to get rubber conducive for their bikes/riders. It's easier for the manufacturers to have to supply only say half the grid than the whole grid due to not needing to try and spec the tire to every single bike on the grid. I'd go further and say that I'd prefer to see at least 3 tire manufacturers involved instead of 2 as that would hopefully lead to even less teams that each manufacturer would have to supply.

This would also have the added effect of allowing the manufacturers to tailor the tires to rider preferences without creating a shitstorm like the current one Michelin has created. I don't care if Rossi gets his preferred construct of tires if it means that Marquez, Dovizioso, and others have the opportunity to get tires in line with what they want. That would be a far more equitable way of conducting the sport...something that Dorna seems to be increasingly out of touch with.

The way I look at it, is if the riders can get tires more aligned to their strengths, it would have the benefit of improving the overall racing, or at least providing us with the knowledge that they are able to ride with the best possible tire. While never a 100% certainty, I feel it would allow for better on-track competition as riders would not be handicapped by a tire as often seems to be the case in the one-make control tire GP.
ananthakannan likes this.
JPSLotus is offline  
April 12th, 2017, 06:52 AM   #2
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2016
From: Scotland

Posts: 173
Likes: 114

I don't understand why there's a tyre monopoly anyway. Why can teams not select the tyre they choose from the manufacturer they choose?

Do they all have to use the same engine oil? The same hardware for the different software they all have? Do they all use the same fuel supply?
Furiosa is offline  
April 12th, 2017, 07:08 AM   #3
Senior Member
danski's Avatar
Joined: Nov 2015
From: A caravan on an island

Posts: 1,783
Likes: 576

I Ride: Shanks pony.
Never been a fan of the control tyre. A single profile for all the different handling bikes is not good for all.
One manufacturer is ok as long as they make different tyres for each factory, honing them accordingly. Only then will more than two factories be able to win on a regular basis.
danski is offline  
April 12th, 2017, 07:13 AM   #4
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2016
From: Kroposphere

Posts: 372
Likes: 92

Ideally the tyre market ought to be open to all suppliers. Complete freedom to every rider (no team/OEM restrictions) to tie up with any supplier and receive a customized build suited to his style & bike. Perhaps even allowing mix-match scenarios - Bridgestone front, Michelin rear.

Then again, in an ideal world, every rider on the grid would also have a factory bike of his preference.


In practice, money remains the overriding factor. Michelin can only afford to pay Dorna €30-40 mil/season for the tyre contract because it gets exclusive advertising rights and has lower input costs; half to two-thirds lower acc. to Kevin Cameron (of Cycleworld).

That amount is about enough to fund Dorna's subsidies to the satellites (€25 mil/season) with a some left over.

Within the current cost constraints, the best solution I can think of is for the tyre supplier to offer as wide a selection of options as possible (say.. 5-6 front slicks, 3-4 rear slicks) to accommodate a wide variety of riders.

Fund that by cutting costs elsewhere - restrict tyre development to a limited time window and then freeze it, while investing in greater production capacity & automation. Run the same standardized options at all venues i.e. no asymmetric builds. Laptimes would (briefly) worsen but the system would be more sustainable over the long term.
JPSLotus, p4p1 and danski like this.
JKant is offline  
April 12th, 2017, 07:42 AM   #5
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2016
From: Kroposphere

Posts: 372
Likes: 92

Originally Posted by Furiosa View Post
I don't understand why there's a tyre monopoly anyway. Why can teams not select the tyre they choose from the manufacturer they choose?
6 manufacturers. 24 riders (from 2019). 2 tyre suppliers (in practice). In any free-for-all the teams with most money will usually (not always but averaged over the long term) end up dominant.

The big factory teams already have an advantage in terms of the numbers of bodies they can throw at a problem on race weekends to setup the bike vis a vis satellite teams. For example, every factory rider will has his own electronics engineer while a satellite riders share one. Some teams are running two year old bikes while HRC last season was turning up with enough parts to run four bikes for Marquez.

Now in a tyre war, the primary motivation for the tyre suppliers is the publicity & advertising associated with wins & podiums and beating their competitor. Tyre development therefore favours riders who can deliver those wins & podiums.

Do they all have to use the same engine oil? The same hardware for the different software they all have? Do they all use the same fuel supply?
Yes. Same fuel. And the ECU (engine control unit) with standard software has been supplied by Magneti Marelli since 2016. And that was one of the main reasons for the return of Aprilia to MotoGP - until recently Honda (and to a slightly lesser extent, Yamaha) could vastly outspend the rest on uber-sophisticated software solutions.
Furiosa likes this.
JKant is offline  
April 12th, 2017, 01:38 PM   #6
Joined: Oct 2015
From: Chennai, Tamil Nadu

Posts: 39
Likes: 9

I Ride: YZF R15
Shell is the exclusive fuel supplier for Ducati. Yamaha and Honda have their own fuel suppliers. There is no exclusive fuel supplier for motoGP class division. However, there might be some limitation or standards in the additives present in the fuel, used in the premier class section.

Moto2 and Moto3 have a common exclusive fuel supplier in 'Total'.

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk
JKant likes this.
ananthakannan is offline  
April 12th, 2017, 02:07 PM   #7
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2007
From: Dubvegas, or thereabouts

Posts: 5,686
Likes: 2076

Have said it before and will say it again (as best my memory allows)

- No control tyre
- Open to any/all tyre manufacturer
- Allow manufacturers to build tyres specifically for their contracted riders or teams with tyres having to be in 'quarantine' at the track on the Thursday morning of race weekend (stops SNS in theory). Yes this does mean build tyres to a specific riders specifications but we need to remember that in essence, a Rossi tyre will suit a few riders, a MM tyre likely the same and so forth, thus trends will develop
- Any tyre produced must be made available to any of the contracted riders (ie. Rossi specials are made available to all riders sponsored by the tyre company, Bridgestone favoured riders the same, Dunlop same, ChengShin, same, Pirelli and so forth)
- All and every tyre produced can remain in allocation for full year with exception of tyres ruled out due to safety concerns which must be requested as ruled out by the safety commission, not the tyre company
- One area I am uncertain about however is whether to allow tyres to be introduced on a race by race basis as for me, that takes away a lot of the work done by the teams to get their bikes suited to the tyres if/when a change upsets the bike balance. Thus, my thoughts would be that we have a window that at each 20% of the season (20, 40, 60, 80) new tyres can be introduced.
- Increase tyre testing opportunities for the racers themselves, not test riders who (with one exception) are slower thus may not find the small nuances. Here, I would have 1 additional day at each pre-season test as a pure tyre test

There was more but near 50 and the memory sucks

** JKant and I have already had a few discussions along the cost lines of this recently and we have differing opinions so not going there again (so JK, let us leave it for all discussions please)
JKant likes this.
Gaz is offline  

  MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

ideal, scenario, tire

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Honesty appreciated in this special scenario.... gumby1 MotoGP 31 July 22nd, 2011 02:02 AM
Your ideal MotoGP calendar ryan92 MotoGP 3 March 22nd, 2011 03:11 AM
The Tire Question: muzzy57 MotoGP 9 August 24th, 2007 06:21 AM
Who can tell me about this tire? GeNeRaL MotoGP 8 October 20th, 2005 12:41 PM

Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed

Copyright © 2005-2019 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.