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April 1st, 2017, 07:41 AM   #71
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Why shouldn't the press cover Rossi more than Marquez and the other riders? There's plenty of people here that HATE Rossi, yet Rossi continues to be the main subject of discussion. Marquez won the championship last year, but his biggest fans here rarely if ever start threads to discuss HIM... they make threads for Rossi. This little forum full of Rossi haters proves that Rossi is by far the rider that damn near everyone focuses on. I don't know about you but if I dislike something/someone, I don't go out of my way to constantly talk about it/them.
If you have to ask...
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April 1st, 2017, 07:43 AM   #72
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If you have to ask...
rhetorical question
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April 1st, 2017, 08:42 AM   #73
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My statements that Marquez has never ridden an unfavorable GP bike and the Repsol Honda is ALWAYS a top machine in the series doesn't mean the RCV never has issues. Again, some of you are ignoring the fact that all the other bikes have issues as well.
Not at all - but the topic under conversation is the Factory Honda - and astonishingly you said this...

"the RCV is being developed for Marquez so if he has an issue with it he should be more careful about what development feedback he's giving his engineers."

Very simply - do you still stand by this?

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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
The M1 isn't perfect and the bikes further down the grid have far more issues.
Of course they do - and that is almost invariably the case. No machine is 'perfect' including the M1, but would you at least concede that the philosophy at HRC concerning the primacy of the machine over the rider is very different to that of Yamaha?

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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Why shouldn't the press cover Rossi more than Marquez and the other riders? There's plenty of people here that HATE Rossi, yet Rossi continues to be the main subject of discussion. Marquez won the championship last year, but his biggest fans here rarely if ever start threads to discuss HIM... they make threads for Rossi. This little forum full of Rossi haters proves that Rossi is by far the rider that damn near everyone focuses on. I don't know about you but if I dislike something/someone, I don't go out of my way to constantly talk about it/them.
Actually, just within the last week JPS started a great thread about Doohan and Kesh another about favourite battles during the MotoGP era. Strangely, didn't see you on either. Plenty of positive comments about Rossi though - but for my part, as Talpa Mk.II, if people post about Rossi it's in part because they know what buttons to prod.

There you go again with your 'hater' diatribe again. As I said before Vudu, I couldn't give two shits about your jaundiced thin skinned veneer and offending your extremist sensitivities. I don't hate Rossi in the slightest as a rider - and since I don't know him personally any such defamation of his character off the circuit would be irrational. However I have little time for what I perceive to be his fake persona and if my iconoclasm irks you then perhaps you should understand why some of us don't uncritically buy into the narrative or have no qualms about deconstructing it.

Why should the press cover Rossi more than Marquez and other riders?

"I don't know about you but if I dislike something/someone, I don't go out of my way to constantly talk about it/them."

Yeah you do actually, you mention JPS practically every post and as your recurrent psychoanalysis of Lorenzo is testament to - you are also poorly informed. Remember your suggestion last year that he has never been a convincing wet weather rider? ('scuse the emoji)

Incidentally, your caps lock appears to be intermittently malfunctioning.
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April 1st, 2017, 09:27 AM   #74
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I think what irks so many heretics and non believers is the tiresome hagiography and the excessive bias in the press. MCN is one of the main sources of the liturgy.

Here's the pre-season review...

Attachment 12434
As I recall Marquez is WC

Here's the opening race report from MCN sport back pages ...

Attachment 12435
Odd, I don't remember Marquez similarly receiving such acclaim for similarly defying the challenges in testing and qualifying and finishing third last year.

Flick the page over, they surely must be leading with the race winner? Don't be ridiculous...

Attachment 12436
Perfect illustration of the sport and all its designs. MotoVR, the rest is background noise.

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April 1st, 2017, 09:29 AM   #75
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Perfect illustration of the sport and all its designs. MotoVR, the rest is background noise.

"Valentino is our Emperor." President of the International Road-Racing Teams Association.

If you live in a glass house, don't throw rocks.
Morning Compa - you watching the Saints for breakfast? See the Stoke game earlier?
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April 1st, 2017, 11:29 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
Not at all - but the topic under conversation is the Factory Honda - and astonishingly you said this...

"the RCV is being developed for Marquez so if he has an issue with it he should be more careful about what development feedback he's giving his engineers."

Very simply - do you still stand by this?



Of course they do - and that is almost invariably the case. No machine is 'perfect' including the M1, but would you at least concede that the philosophy at HRC concerning the primacy of the machine over the rider is very different to that of Yamaha?



Actually, just within the last week JPS started a great thread about Doohan and Kesh another about favourite battles during the MotoGP era. Strangely, didn't see you on either. Plenty of positive comments about Rossi though - but for my part, as Talpa Mk.II, if people post about Rossi it's in part because they know what buttons to prod.

There you go again with your 'hater' diatribe again. As I said before Vudu, I couldn't give two shits about your jaundiced thin skinned veneer and offending your extremist sensitivities. I don't hate Rossi in the slightest as a rider - and since I don't know him personally any such defamation of his character off the circuit would be irrational. However I have little time for what I perceive to be his fake persona and if my iconoclasm irks you then perhaps you should understand why some of us don't uncritically buy into the narrative or have no qualms about deconstructing it.

Why should the press cover Rossi more than Marquez and other riders?

"I don't know about you but if I dislike something/someone, I don't go out of my way to constantly talk about it/them."

Yeah you do actually, you mention JPS practically every post and as your recurrent psychoanalysis of Lorenzo is testament to - you are also poorly informed. Remember your suggestion last year that he has never been a convincing wet weather rider? ('scuse the emoji)

Incidentally, your caps lock appears to be intermittently malfunctioning.
Yes, I still stand by my statement about Marc's feedback to his engineers. That doesn't mean I put 100% of the blame for the RCV's issues on Marquez, but I have my doubts that he is giving proper feedback to help make the RCV easier to ride (not just for him, but for all RCV riders).

I agree that Yamaha and Honda have different design philosophies, however HRC does strongly favor one rider over the other. HRC made the Pedrocycle in '07 to the detriment of Hayden and now they've made a Quez-cycle to the detriment of every other RCV rider. Even if they have a philosophy that favors the bike over the rider, they're still designing the bike around one rider in particular. Marquez absolutely has input for the direction of development... he is the one getting to choose chassis and engines at the post season Valencia tests.

You mentioned a whopping 2 non-Rossi threads that were just made on a forum that discusses Rossi 96% of the time. I woke up to a new thread by p4p1 discussing Rossi! Sorry, you're not refuting my point that even the people that claim they dislike Rossi spend much of their time paying a lot of attention to him.

Last year I simply misspoke when referring to Lorenzo's wet riding performances. I was discussing his recent seasons while you wanted to refute me so you went way back to his time in the junior classes and first few seasons in MotoGP to pull wet race examples. You would be the one that's misinformed or in denial if you're attempting to deny Lorenzo has struggled in the rain since getting hurt at Assen.

Last edited by moto vudu; April 1st, 2017 at 11:37 AM.
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April 1st, 2017, 11:36 AM   #77
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Morning Compa - you watching the Saints for breakfast? See the Stoke game earlier?
Followed on app comps. Still on holiday. LC looking champs, SH were better but as usual, missed opportunities.

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April 1st, 2017, 12:04 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Yes, I still stand by my statement about Marc's feedback to his engineers. That doesn't mean I put 100% of the blame for the RCV's issues on Marquez, but I have my doubts that he is giving proper feedback to help make the RCV easier to ride (not just for him, but for all RCV riders).
Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post

I agree that Yamaha and Honda have different design philosophies, however HRC does strongly favor one rider over the other. HRC made the Pedrocycle in '07 to the detriment of Hayden
And Pedrosa...and anyone that had the misfortune of riding the damn thing. Both Dovi and Checa cited it as the worst race bike they'd ever ridden.

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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Marquez absolutely has input for the direction of development... he is the one getting to choose chassis and engines at the post season Valencia tests.
From the options that HRC present. Of course this is driven by his feedback, but did you not read my earlier post about the sequence of events in 2015 and 2016? You consistently suppress and refuse to broach any contentions that do not match your narrative. Do you think Marquez requested an excessively peaky motor or should have anticipated that the conditions at Sepang in 2015 were masking the ferocity of the new package. Was he culpable for the overly heavy crank simply through asking for improved throttle response and mechanical grip? Like I said, last year the entire bike was rebalanced not around Marquez, but around the Michelin tyre.

So to clarify, you stand by this statement...
"the RCV is being developed for Marquez so if he has an issue with it he should be more careful about what development feedback he's giving his engineers."

Should we then blame the No.1 rider at Yamaha in 2006 when they took a spectacularly wrong turn in their chassis design? Ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
You mentioned a whopping 2 non-Rossi threads that were just made on a forum that discusses Rossi 96% of the time.
No I mentioned two threads in the space of a week which you didn't contribute to - and could have mentioned more. 96% of the time? - did you measure that?

Perhaps more to address the point of the post you could instead quantify how much the racing press spend discussing Rossi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Last year I simply misspoke when referring to Lorenzo's wet riding performances. I was discussing his recent seasons while you wanted to refute me so you went way back to his time in the junior classes and first few seasons in MotoGP to pull wet race examples. You would be the one that's misinformed or in denial if you're attempting to deny Lorenzo has struggled in the rain since getting hurt at Assen.
Oh nonsense, you did it out of ignorance and an innate dislike for Lorenzo. And no I didn't simply summon examples solely from his 125 and 250 years which you were utterly impervious to, I also discussed how formidable he initially was on the Michelin wets when he first arrived at Yam and linked you to an article discussing his performance at the Island.

Back to the Rossi narrative. I invite you to keep an open mind and read this. It is I concede an opinion piece and the second part of a blog which was posted on here some months ago. I'd be interested to learn whether you construe this piece as 'hating' because it accords very closely with my own views on the situation.

Doctored: MotoGP?s Obsession with Valentino Rossi ? Part 2 | Trunk Talk
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April 1st, 2017, 01:37 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Yes, I still stand by my statement about Marc's feedback to his engineers. That doesn't mean I put 100% of the blame for the RCV's issues on Marquez, but I have my doubts that he is giving proper feedback to help make the RCV easier to ride (not just for him, but for all RCV riders).

I agree that Yamaha and Honda have different design philosophies, however HRC does strongly favor one rider over the other. HRC made the Pedrocycle in '07 to the detriment of Hayden and now they've made a Quez-cycle to the detriment of every other RCV rider. Even if they have a philosophy that favors the bike over the rider, they're still designing the bike around one rider in particular. Marquez absolutely has input for the direction of development... he is the one getting to choose chassis and engines at the post season Valencia tests.

You mentioned a whopping 2 non-Rossi threads that were just made on a forum that discusses Rossi 96% of the time. I woke up to a new thread by p4p1 discussing Rossi! Sorry, you're not refuting my point that even the people that claim they dislike Rossi spend much of their time paying a lot of attention to him.

Last year I simply misspoke when referring to Lorenzo's wet riding performances. I was discussing his recent seasons while you wanted to refute me so you went way back to his time in the junior classes and first few seasons in MotoGP to pull wet race examples. You would be the one that's misinformed or in denial if you're attempting to deny Lorenzo has struggled in the rain since getting hurt at Assen.
You are actually the one who can't count up to 7 to support your own argument, rather suggesting that the arguments are independent of actual facts; as Arrabbiata says, you just run your narrative anyway, apparently regardless of anything inconvenient like external reality.

Those you call haters on here are mostly people who have followed the sport for a long time, and while such longevity doesn't necessarily make anyone correct it certainly provides evidence for an interest in gp bike racing which goes beyond "hating" Valentino Rossi.
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Last edited by michaelm; April 2nd, 2017 at 02:32 AM.
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April 1st, 2017, 03:04 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by moto vudu View Post
Yes, I still stand by my statement about Marc's feedback to his engineers. That doesn't mean I put 100% of the blame for the RCV's issues on Marquez, but I have my doubts that he is giving proper feedback to help make the RCV easier to ride (not just for him, but for all RCV riders).

I agree that Yamaha and Honda have different design philosophies, however HRC does strongly favor one rider over the other. HRC made the Pedrocycle in '07 to the detriment of Hayden and now they've made a Quez-cycle to the detriment of every other RCV rider. Even if they have a philosophy that favors the bike over the rider, they're still designing the bike around one rider in particular. Marquez absolutely has input for the direction of development... he is the one getting to choose chassis and engines at the post season Valencia tests.

You mentioned a whopping 2 non-Rossi threads that were just made on a forum that discusses Rossi 96% of the time. I woke up to a new thread by p4p1 discussing Rossi! Sorry, you're not refuting my point that even the people that claim they dislike Rossi spend much of their time paying a lot of attention to him.

Last year I simply misspoke when referring to Lorenzo's wet riding performances. I was discussing his recent seasons while you wanted to refute me so you went way back to his time in the junior classes and first few seasons in MotoGP to pull wet race examples. You would be the one that's misinformed or in denial if you're attempting to deny Lorenzo has struggled in the rain since getting hurt at Assen.
I'm not seeing any facts or solid arguments in this post...you are, well how would you put it in Vudu terms? Talking out of your ass as usual?

In fact, as usual you can't actually refute anything Arrab has said about Honda engineering and how it relates to the RCV and Marc Marquez.

Instead you've chosen to try and talk as if this is a subjective discussion that comes down to opinion...and you didn't waste another chance to make your blanket reference to the haters.

Like I continually tell you MV, it's a pity you haven't really learned anything about the sport in the time you've been posting here. The mind is a terrible thing to waste.
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