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June 14th, 2017, 04:15 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by J4rn0 View Post
You said Grand Prix, and that's Grand Prix races that Aprilia has won in plentiful abundance. Equating the premier class only with F1 and demoting the smaller capacity classes as something preliminary or inferior has been Dorna's marketing exercise, but it is contrary to motorcycle Grand Prix tradition.


I said my intent was about a comparison F1 and that the 500cc world championship/MotoGP class was more appropriate and hence the proper equivalent because that is where the major technology has always been - the top class.

Go run at another windmill.
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June 14th, 2017, 05:27 PM   #212
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I think one of the biggest problems is Aprilia are the motorbike version of Lotus in formula one in the 60's, performance at the penalty of dead people or unreliable engines. I've had 4 Aprilia's and tbo they are crap, soft frames, over developed engines that go bang, brakes that are okay but overheat on long stop start journeys, and bloody uncomfortable seats over a distance, oh and they are designed for midgets.
All of which may be so, but has zero to do with the Aprilia race dept and their creations.
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June 14th, 2017, 05:38 PM   #213
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I said my intent was about a comparison F1 and that the 500cc world championship/MotoGP class was more appropriate and hence the proper equivalent because that is where the major technology has always been - the top class.

Go run at another windmill.
Umm, no. In the case of 2T the "lower" classes were just as, if not more sophisticated than the 500s.There were more innovations in the lower classes than the 500. Frames, suspension, etc were more often much better in the 125/250/350 classes than the crappines the factories were punting out. Nice 200deg exhaust opening disc valve singles, where a factory Yam or Suzuki 500 was a piston ported dinosaur. Even going back to the 60s. Honda's finest bikes were the 250/6 etc. not the 500.
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June 14th, 2017, 08:09 PM   #214
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Doc, your post touches on something that I have been wondering for some times .......... that we so often now no longer look at the feeder categories as anything other than 'preliminary entertainment' whereas in years past many people followed those categories religiously as they were far higher profile in a number of ways.

Personally, I have to admit that Moto3 and Moto2 just do not have the same 'draw factor' as did the 80/125/250/350 categories of years past
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June 14th, 2017, 09:50 PM   #215
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Doc, your post touches on something that I have been wondering for some times .......... that we so often now no longer look at the feeder categories as anything other than 'preliminary entertainment' whereas in years past many people followed those categories religiously as they were far higher profile in a number of ways.

Personally, I have to admit that Moto3 and Moto2 just do not have the same 'draw factor' as did the 80/125/250/350 categories of years past
125cc was an amazing category because riders had to fight tooth and nail, there was a far bigger advantage to be made in actual race craft and conducting a good slipstream on an opponenet than there was in having a technically superior motorcycle .. given the limited capacity and power outputs etc.

As far as I can see Moto3 is no different, brilliant racing with half a dozen lead position changes on the final lap, cant really ask for more. I'm sure In 20 years time we will all look back at Moto3 and Moto2 with the same rose coloured glasses... most likely when electric motorcycles take over.

I can already hear the future nostalgic comments........ "Those where the good ol days ... when they raced the old fashioned 120VDC Tesla battery power bikes, not this fan dangled 18VDC solar & methane fart gas power assisted eco friendly rubbish .... its ruining the sport" *shakes walking cane

I might be on my own here but I think Moto3 fucking rocks!!!
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June 14th, 2017, 10:19 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Doc, your post touches on something that I have been wondering for some times .......... that we so often now no longer look at the feeder categories as anything other than 'preliminary entertainment' whereas in years past many people followed those categories religiously as they were far higher profile in a number of ways.

Personally, I have to admit that Moto3 and Moto2 just do not have the same 'draw factor' as did the 80/125/250/350 categories of years past
100%.
I have mentioned it before. In the days of Doohan wandering off into the distance, it was 125s and 250s that kept me captivated.
In years gone by, it was probably the smaller classes that kept the whole show going. Lots of privateers in those classes, lots of bike options, compared to 500s, in which you had no competitive options against the MVs, Hondas etc. Look at what rattled around behind those for a decade. Yamaha should be credited for their proddy racers which provided rides for so many. Something that is seriously missing from modern bike racing (then again, in the 70s road bikes were utter shite for racing, unlike the road bikes now)
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Last edited by Dr No; June 14th, 2017 at 10:24 PM. Reason: correct shite phone typing
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June 14th, 2017, 11:36 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by AJV80 View Post
125cc was an amazing category because riders had to fight tooth and nail, there was a far bigger advantage to be made in actual race craft and conducting a good slipstream on an opponenet than there was in having a technically superior motorcycle .. given the limited capacity and power outputs etc.

As far as I can see Moto3 is no different, brilliant racing with half a dozen lead position changes on the final lap, cant really ask for more. I'm sure In 20 years time we will all look back at Moto3 and Moto2 with the same rose coloured glasses... most likely when electric motorcycles take over.

I can already hear the future nostalgic comments........ "Those where the good ol days ... when they raced the old fashioned 120VDC Tesla battery power bikes, not this fan dangled 18VDC solar & methane fart gas power assisted eco friendly rubbish .... its ruining the sport" *shakes walking cane

I might be on my own here but I think Moto3 fucking rocks!!!
No doubt that Moto3 produces some good, close racing, much along the same vein that 125cc (and the 80cc classes as well) did for decades but today, Moto3 is looked on as a feeder class where just over a decade ago 125cc was it's own show and in many areas, the 250/350 and 500cc were the supporting class to 125cc (and this goes for 250/350 as well).

The two stroke classes seemed to have 'more personality' of the class (no doubt for this aging old fart, it is the two stroke sound and smell) whilst the 4 strokes classes seem to lack that same personality or class defining characteristic which may well come with time, as after all the old two strokes had years to build but for mine, at present the smaller capacity classes do not have that 'wow' of years past.

If these were not so rule restricted or spec series it could/would be different as it would open up to innovation and ideas that may prove fruitful for those so inclined but sadly, at this stage so many rules restrict the innovation (across all current four stroke categories)
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Last edited by Gaz; June 14th, 2017 at 11:53 PM.
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June 15th, 2017, 03:15 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post


I said my intent was about a comparison F1 and that the 500cc world championship/MotoGP class was more appropriate and hence the proper equivalent because that is where the major technology has always been - the top class.

Go run at another windmill.
Maybe you should do that
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June 15th, 2017, 05:45 AM   #219
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Maybe you should do that
There's about 350 wind turbines just offshore near me, JPS could have a go at those but he'll have to work on walking on water first.
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June 15th, 2017, 07:12 AM   #220
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There's about 350 wind turbines just offshore near me, JPS could have a go at those but he'll have to work on walking on water first.
I already walk on water.
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