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March 4th, 2017, 01:31 PM   #71
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It's pretty funny to say that Rossi did the right thing, or he didn't hurt himself, because he was too slow to beat Lorenzo the last race, anyway. What you are saying is that you and Rossi knew what was going to happen in the future. Thus, him starting from last was okay. rofl.

He lost three points for Malaysia, which gave him four penalty points for the season and mandated that he start from last the next race. Repeat: He had the same points as if he finished fourth. He gained nothing by pushing MM wide, except 20+ grid positions.

No one predicted the future. And no one knew where he would qualify or finish the last race. If he hadn't been penalized, he could have killed Lorenzo the last race and would have been bequeathed the championship. Something that I am sure also-ran Edwards would do for him. To state that Rossi didn't really hurt his chances in Malaysia is either disingenuous or delusional, just like Rossi has been about the whole damn thing. ;-P
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March 4th, 2017, 01:39 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post

He lost three points for Malaysia, which gave him four penalty points for the season and mandated that he start from last the next race. Repeat: He had the same points as if he finished fourth. He gained nothing by pushing MM wide, except 20+ grid positions.
Huh?

3rd = 16 points
4th = 13 points

How did he lose 3 points for finishing 3rd over 4th?
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March 4th, 2017, 02:05 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
It's pretty funny to say that Rossi did the right thing, or he didn't hurt himself, because he was too slow to beat Lorenzo the last race, anyway. What you are saying is that you and Rossi knew what was going to happen in the future. Thus, him starting from last was okay. rofl.

He lost three points for Malaysia, which gave him four penalty points for the season and mandated that he start from last the next race. Repeat: He had the same points as if he finished fourth. He gained nothing by pushing MM wide, except 20+ grid positions.

No one predicted the future. And no one knew where he would qualify or finish the last race. If he hadn't been penalized, he could have killed Lorenzo the last race and would have been bequeathed the championship. Something that I am sure also-ran Edwards would do for him. To state that Rossi didn't really hurt his chances in Malaysia is either disingenuous or delusional, just like Rossi has been about the whole damn thing. ;-P
I don't think anybody was insinuating they could predict the future and that starting from the back of the grid didn't matter or couldn't effect the race results before the race had taken place (even though he wasn't as strong that weekend and also qualified poorly). Before any race everybody knows that anything can happen regardless of how fast someone is, the quickest guys can still crash, have a mechanical failure or make a mistake losing positions. Like I said looking at it with 20/20 hindsight it's very clear that it would have made no difference where Rossi started the race in Valencia from. The 3 guys who finished ahead of him all lapped faster than he did during every single lap of the race. Using the fact he started from he back as the excuse as to why Rossi didn't win the championship is flat out fantasy.

The point being made is that the penalty he received that caused him to start from the back at Valencia didn't actually make any difference to where he finished the championship. And again in hindsight If he didn't have the incident with Marc in Sepang the best possible outcome for him would have been to beat Marc in Sepang and finish in 3rd position. And if that happened he still would have finished the championship in exactly the same position as he did. The data from Valencia indicated that he only had the pace capable of a 4th position finish anyway, regardless of where he started from on the grid.

If the penalty for his incident with Marc was even something like a ride through penalty at Sepang he may have finished the championship at Valencia with a bigger points deficit than he did. If he didn't have the incident with Marc in Sepang and finished behind Marc (which more than likely would have been the case) he also would have finished the championship with a bigger points deficit than he did.

To put it simply, the incident with Marc in Sepang may well have given him 3rd position points instead of 4th position points (an advantage to Rossi), and the chosen disiplinary recourse at Valencia ultimately didn't effect his finishing position in the race or the championship. If a black flag or ride through penalty was imposed, it would have worked out worse for Rossi. It makes no sense to use the Sepang incident and the Valencia 'back of grid start' as the reason Rossi lost the championship, if anything the entire debacle actually worked out in his favour based on the additional championship points he picked up at Sepang.

Rossi wasn't the quickest guy at Valencia but he put in a valiant effort to go from the back of the field to get up into 4th position, which according to his laptimes was the highest position he was capable of attaining based on the quicker laptimes of the guys who finished ahead of him on the podium. Are you suggesting that when Rossi rode at Valencia he would of had faster laptimes throughout the entire race if he started from the front row, was he deliberately riding slower because he started from the back of the grid knowing that the championship was at stake???
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Last edited by AJV80; March 4th, 2017 at 06:18 PM.
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March 4th, 2017, 02:11 PM   #74
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Quote:
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Huh?

3rd = 16 points
4th = 13 points

How did he lose 3 points for finishing 3rd over 4th?
Pony was right, 3 penalty points given = 4 for the season, put the bong down.
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March 4th, 2017, 02:17 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
It's pretty funny to say that Rossi did the right thing, or he didn't hurt himself, because he was too slow to beat Lorenzo the last race, anyway. What you are saying is that you and Rossi knew what was going to happen in the future. Thus, him starting from last was okay. rofl.

He lost three points for Malaysia, which gave him four penalty points for the season and mandated that he start from last the next race. Repeat: He had the same points as if he finished fourth. He gained nothing by pushing MM wide, except 20+ grid positions.

No one predicted the future. And no one knew where he would qualify or finish the last race. If he hadn't been penalized, he could have killed Lorenzo the last race and would have been bequeathed the championship. Something that I am sure also-ran Edwards would do for him. To state that Rossi didn't really hurt his chances in Malaysia is either disingenuous or delusional, just like Rossi has been about the whole damn thing. ;-P
Of course starting from the back of the grid is a handicap (unless you are Marc Marquez in moto 2) but his net improvement in position in the title race by 3 points meant he had a 7 point lead rather than 4 points going into the last race, and hence 3rd at Valencia wouldn't have won Lorenzo the championship. Despite MM allegedly letting Lorenzo win, while doing so he pushed Jorge all the way, requiring him to lap at near lap record pace the whole race, obviously increasing his chances of crashing out.

It didn't require clairvoyance to pick ahead of Valencia 2015 that Rossi would finish 4th despite the grid penalty, and many on here did pick this. Valencia is also a bogey track for Rossi, he lost the 2006 championship there, one reason he was so desperate not to be in a straight fight with Lorenzo there as far as the points situation was concerned imo. Of course Rossi didn't pre-plan getting 3 extra points at the price of a back of the grid penalty (the only explanation for what he did imo is that he completely lost it, rather casting doubt on his legendary sang froid under pressure, given what happened the only other time he was in a close battle for the title), but what people are saying post hoc is that finishing 4th was the best he was going to do anyway, and I myself am in agreement with this.
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Last edited by michaelm; March 4th, 2017 at 02:22 PM.
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March 4th, 2017, 02:21 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #22 View Post
Huh?

3rd = 16 points
4th = 13 points

How did he lose 3 points for finishing 3rd over 4th?


Penalty points on the licence I suspect

Which is my point from yonks back ........... he got a point earlier in the year that caused the start from last (along with Sepang) so why is that point ignored by the minions?
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March 4th, 2017, 02:38 PM   #77
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Penalty points on the licence I suspect

Which is my point from yonks back ........... he got a point earlier in the year that caused the start from last (along with Sepang) so why is that point ignored by the minions?
He seems to think the 3 point penalty was taken off his points total rather than his license.

But let's talk about license points for a second, although Rossi didn't break any rules in 2016 do we really think it's a coincidence that they changed the entire penalty points system after Rossi was put in a position that another infraction in the next year would've got him a harsher penalty?
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March 4th, 2017, 02:49 PM   #78
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Come to think of it, Lorenzo second and Rossi 4th at Valencia would have won Lorenzo the title regardless of Rossi having a 4 point or 7 point lead, in the latter situation on the basis of more wins as the tie-breaker.

i don't think Rossi intended to put MM out of the race, just off the track, and assumed that would be the result of his move as it had been in similar situations with the likes of Gibernau and Stoner in the past.
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March 4th, 2017, 02:53 PM   #79
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Quote:
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Come to think of it, Lorenzo second and Rossi 4th at Valencia would have won Lorenzo the title regardless of Rossi having a 4 point or 7 point lead, in the latter situation on the basis of more wins as the tie-breaker.

i don't think Rossi intended to put MM out of the race, just off the track, and assumed that would be the result of his move as it had been in similar situations with the likes of Gibernau and Stoner in the past.
Yeah but you have to remember that MM chucking it down the road which was normal in 2015 means if he came second and Rossi gained a position then the title would've have been his. That's not the case without the 3 extra points. It just added a bit more pressure but as I think we've all seen when the pressure is on Lorenzo shines. Rossi under the same pressure probably has a stack.
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March 4th, 2017, 02:58 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Come to think of it, Lorenzo second and Rossi 4th at Valencia would have won Lorenzo the title regardless of Rossi having a 4 point or 7 point lead, in the latter situation on the basis of more wins as the tie-breaker.

i don't think Rossi intended to put MM out of the race, just off the track, and assumed that would be the result of his move as it had been in similar situations with the likes of Gibernau and Stoner in the past.
I agree, I doubt his intention was to take him out. I don't think taking someone out on a bike by kicking them would be a very easy thing to do even if that was your intention. Seeing him take a big look back after the incident tells me he was probably thinking 'Oh shit, now I'm fucked'.

Last edited by AJV80; March 4th, 2017 at 03:39 PM.
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