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June 30th, 2017, 04:56 AM   #211
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The truth? You can't handle the truth.
Ah, the sense of humour must have been left on those prison boats
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June 30th, 2017, 05:34 AM   #212
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Ah, the sense of humour must have been left on those prison boats
You mean my grandfather from Gloucestershire who fought at the Somme?

Jack Nicholson reference anyway.
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August 17th, 2017, 11:48 AM   #213
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I suppose this is as good a thread as any to post. Wouldn't it be great to just delete people who disagree?

NorthKropo's advice to Hack Oxley.

Chickenshit.

(The guy they're talking about had an insane take, but he wasn't being offensive.)
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August 17th, 2017, 03:20 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
I suppose this is as good a thread as any to post. Wouldn't it be great to just delete people who disagree?

NorthKropo's advice to Hack Oxley.

Chickenshit.

(The guy they're talking about had an insane take, but he wasn't being offensive.)

"NorthKropo's" had me laughing, classic. A perfect example of how even a sniff of power can go to people's heads.
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August 23rd, 2017, 01:52 PM   #215
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Good read about the climate that Rossi has created in the sport below. The sport media like Kropotkin and Max Oxley etal are also responsible, as they are supposed to be part of the checks on such a toxic environment. Rossi's blatant favoritism by the promoters, particularly Rossi's vilification of rivals, have gone all but unchallenged by these supposed journalists. If you look at their tweeter feeds, it's become clear why they don't or can't stand up for principle (the few that have any left). The Valiban exist because there are no journalistic voices to stamp it out, hell, the opposite happens, as there is often the tacit approval of Rossi's antics. How many journalists stood up to Rossi after the debacle of 2015? Since then Rossi has still openly expressed his extreme-like religious faith in such a ridiculous ploy by Marc Marquez and disparage Jorge Lorenzo (and if you read comments on various articles and forums, most Rossi fans still subscribe to it.) It's not like there's ever been a significant counter argument by the GP media. Hell, some media, and mind bogglingly this includes professional riders, believe the wild imagination of Uccio's whispered bullshit in Rossi's narcissistic ears. The GP media infamously hid/hide behind the cowardly and disproportionate fallacy that there was 'blame on both sides.'


http://www.mcnews.com.au/valeban-motogp-bigotry/

"But what kept going through the back of my mind while enjoying this masterclass, was the guarantee of the spiteful, unrelenting hate which was to come from the “Valeban” post race. As even in victory, they are unable to control their utter contempt and loathing for his competitors. While I love passionate fans who support their favourite rider, I detest bigotry and bigotry is something that has become prevalent throughout MotoGP fandom in recent years.

It appears that if you are a Pedrosa fan, then you must hate the others. A Lorenzo fan, then his rivals and his rivals supporters are to be derided and abused. More so if you are a Rossi fan than any other fan.

While there are some rational Valentino fans, there is an overwhelming majority who appear to be unable to accept any opinion or belief other than those which totally support every aspect of Rossi….the bigoted fans. These fully paid up members of the Valeban can see no rationale. Are unable to accept any facts. Refuse to acknowledge when Rossi makes a mistake, be it on track or in the media. Accept his petulance when he loses and applaud his derision of other riders. Whereas, if this behaviour is exhibited by any other rider, then they are a sook. A bad sport. A sore loser. A cry baby……..and these are some of the more polite terms commonly issued, the more vile comments are not fit for publication.

The current example is the attacks on Jorge Lorenzo’s less than jovial attitude on the podium at Jerez. It is as if Valentino has never showed a poor response to not winning a race. That he has never complained or expressed his disappointment with the performance of a tyre or a set up which didn’t work as expected. But it’s even more than that. It is the vile, zealotry of these comments. The excessive fanatacism which spits from the viperous tongues of the Valeban is what really gets on my goat. Passionate fans I love. The hatred, animosity, detestation and relentless loathing I don’t. The lack of respect for other riders has increased dramatically in the last decade. I’ve watched it change from what used to be passionate fans, respectful of the riders they do not support, to total and complete hatred of other riders and there is one person who started it and one person who could nip it in the bud with just one press release. That person is Valentino himself. Instead, he chooses to ignore it, even perpetuate and subtly encourage it.

Now of course, with Valentino’s first win since August 2015, the Valeban are now claiming it as the second coming of god. If they are to be believed, he is now a certainty to win every race for the remainder of the year and claim his tenth world title. He is far superior to every other rider and no one will be able to keep pace from henceforth……they may as well hang up their boots and gloves now. While I for one, would be absolutely over the moon at Valentino winning his tenth title, I am still to be convinced that this one singular performance at Jerez, all be it a master class in riding a MotoGP bike, is a signal that he will check out for the remainder of the years races. He has two super talented riders who are going to be doing everything they can to ensure that is not the case and anyone who writes off either Marquez or Lorenzo, either knows a hell of a lot more about MotoGP than I, or is delusional. I’ll allow you to be the judge of that.


Most fans have a favourite rider and that’s perfectly normal. What is….or at least was perfectly normal, was showing some respect for the other riders who risk their lives every second weekend to keep us entertained. To me, they are all heroes. The aliens of motorcycle racing. Riding gods each and every one of them. To me, they all deserve to be shown respect regardless of who I feel is my favourite rider or the one I would most like to see win the championship. You see, I’m not a bigot. Just a huge fan of motorcycle racing and the riders who continue to keep me in absolute awe of their skills and abilities.

If anyone is looking for me, I’m heading to join Mr. Rushdie in protective custody preparing for the onslaught from the Valeban…"

Last edited by Jumkie; August 23rd, 2017 at 02:12 PM.
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August 24th, 2017, 01:13 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Good read about the climate that Rossi has created in the sport below. The sport media like Kropotkin and Max Oxley etal are also responsible, as they are supposed to be part of the checks on such a toxic environment. Rossi's blatant favoritism by the promoters, particularly Rossi's vilification of rivals, have gone all but unchallenged by these supposed journalists. If you look at their tweeter feeds, it's become clear why they don't or can't stand up for principle (the few that have any left). The Valiban exist because there are no journalistic voices to stamp it out, hell, the opposite happens, as there is often the tacit approval of Rossi's antics. How many journalists stood up to Rossi after the debacle of 2015? Since then Rossi has still openly expressed his extreme-like religious faith in such a ridiculous ploy by Marc Marquez and disparage Jorge Lorenzo (and if you read comments on various articles and forums, most Rossi fans still subscribe to it.) It's not like there's ever been a significant counter argument by the GP media. Hell, some media, and mind bogglingly this includes professional riders, believe the wild imagination of Uccio's whispered bullshit in Rossi's narcissistic ears. The GP media infamously hid/hide behind the cowardly and disproportionate fallacy that there was 'blame on both sides.'


Valeban | The Bigotry of MotoGP | MCNews.com.au

"But what kept going through the back of my mind while enjoying this masterclass, was the guarantee of the spiteful, unrelenting hate which was to come from the “Valeban” post race. As even in victory, they are unable to control their utter contempt and loathing for his competitors. While I love passionate fans who support their favourite rider, I detest bigotry and bigotry is something that has become prevalent throughout MotoGP fandom in recent years.

It appears that if you are a Pedrosa fan, then you must hate the others. A Lorenzo fan, then his rivals and his rivals supporters are to be derided and abused. More so if you are a Rossi fan than any other fan.

While there are some rational Valentino fans, there is an overwhelming majority who appear to be unable to accept any opinion or belief other than those which totally support every aspect of Rossi….the bigoted fans. These fully paid up members of the Valeban can see no rationale. Are unable to accept any facts. Refuse to acknowledge when Rossi makes a mistake, be it on track or in the media. Accept his petulance when he loses and applaud his derision of other riders. Whereas, if this behaviour is exhibited by any other rider, then they are a sook. A bad sport. A sore loser. A cry baby……..and these are some of the more polite terms commonly issued, the more vile comments are not fit for publication.

The current example is the attacks on Jorge Lorenzo’s less than jovial attitude on the podium at Jerez. It is as if Valentino has never showed a poor response to not winning a race. That he has never complained or expressed his disappointment with the performance of a tyre or a set up which didn’t work as expected. But it’s even more than that. It is the vile, zealotry of these comments. The excessive fanatacism which spits from the viperous tongues of the Valeban is what really gets on my goat. Passionate fans I love. The hatred, animosity, detestation and relentless loathing I don’t. The lack of respect for other riders has increased dramatically in the last decade. I’ve watched it change from what used to be passionate fans, respectful of the riders they do not support, to total and complete hatred of other riders and there is one person who started it and one person who could nip it in the bud with just one press release. That person is Valentino himself. Instead, he chooses to ignore it, even perpetuate and subtly encourage it.

Now of course, with Valentino’s first win since August 2015, the Valeban are now claiming it as the second coming of god. If they are to be believed, he is now a certainty to win every race for the remainder of the year and claim his tenth world title. He is far superior to every other rider and no one will be able to keep pace from henceforth……they may as well hang up their boots and gloves now. While I for one, would be absolutely over the moon at Valentino winning his tenth title, I am still to be convinced that this one singular performance at Jerez, all be it a master class in riding a MotoGP bike, is a signal that he will check out for the remainder of the years races. He has two super talented riders who are going to be doing everything they can to ensure that is not the case and anyone who writes off either Marquez or Lorenzo, either knows a hell of a lot more about MotoGP than I, or is delusional. I’ll allow you to be the judge of that.


Most fans have a favourite rider and that’s perfectly normal. What is….or at least was perfectly normal, was showing some respect for the other riders who risk their lives every second weekend to keep us entertained. To me, they are all heroes. The aliens of motorcycle racing. Riding gods each and every one of them. To me, they all deserve to be shown respect regardless of who I feel is my favourite rider or the one I would most like to see win the championship. You see, I’m not a bigot. Just a huge fan of motorcycle racing and the riders who continue to keep me in absolute awe of their skills and abilities.

If anyone is looking for me, I’m heading to join Mr. Rushdie in protective custody preparing for the onslaught from the Valeban…"
Pretty much exactly what the likes of you and I have been arguing on here since the events of late season 2015, which I have also applied retrospectively to that retired rider who cannot be named.

One reason I have done it is to try and put out a counter narrative, however futile that endeavour might be.
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August 24th, 2017, 04:36 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Good read about the climate that Rossi has created in the sport below. The sport media like Kropotkin and Max Oxley etal are also responsible, as they are supposed to be part of the checks on such a toxic environment. Rossi's blatant favoritism by the promoters, particularly Rossi's vilification of rivals, have gone all but unchallenged by these supposed journalists. If you look at their tweeter feeds, it's become clear why they don't or can't stand up for principle (the few that have any left). The Valiban exist because there are no journalistic voices to stamp it out, hell, the opposite happens, as there is often the tacit approval of Rossi's antics. How many journalists stood up to Rossi after the debacle of 2015? Since then Rossi has still openly expressed his extreme-like religious faith in such a ridiculous ploy by Marc Marquez and disparage Jorge Lorenzo (and if you read comments on various articles and forums, most Rossi fans still subscribe to it.) It's not like there's ever been a significant counter argument by the GP media. Hell, some media, and mind bogglingly this includes professional riders, believe the wild imagination of Uccio's whispered bullshit in Rossi's narcissistic ears. The GP media infamously hid/hide behind the cowardly and disproportionate fallacy that there was 'blame on both sides.'


Valeban | The Bigotry of MotoGP | MCNews.com.au

"But what kept going through the back of my mind while enjoying this masterclass, was the guarantee of the spiteful, unrelenting hate which was to come from the “Valeban” post race. As even in victory, they are unable to control their utter contempt and loathing for his competitors. While I love passionate fans who support their favourite rider, I detest bigotry and bigotry is something that has become prevalent throughout MotoGP fandom in recent years.

It appears that if you are a Pedrosa fan, then you must hate the others. A Lorenzo fan, then his rivals and his rivals supporters are to be derided and abused. More so if you are a Rossi fan than any other fan.

While there are some rational Valentino fans, there is an overwhelming majority who appear to be unable to accept any opinion or belief other than those which totally support every aspect of Rossi….the bigoted fans. These fully paid up members of the Valeban can see no rationale. Are unable to accept any facts. Refuse to acknowledge when Rossi makes a mistake, be it on track or in the media. Accept his petulance when he loses and applaud his derision of other riders. Whereas, if this behaviour is exhibited by any other rider, then they are a sook. A bad sport. A sore loser. A cry baby……..and these are some of the more polite terms commonly issued, the more vile comments are not fit for publication.

The current example is the attacks on Jorge Lorenzo’s less than jovial attitude on the podium at Jerez. It is as if Valentino has never showed a poor response to not winning a race. That he has never complained or expressed his disappointment with the performance of a tyre or a set up which didn’t work as expected. But it’s even more than that. It is the vile, zealotry of these comments. The excessive fanatacism which spits from the viperous tongues of the Valeban is what really gets on my goat. Passionate fans I love. The hatred, animosity, detestation and relentless loathing I don’t. The lack of respect for other riders has increased dramatically in the last decade. I’ve watched it change from what used to be passionate fans, respectful of the riders they do not support, to total and complete hatred of other riders and there is one person who started it and one person who could nip it in the bud with just one press release. That person is Valentino himself. Instead, he chooses to ignore it, even perpetuate and subtly encourage it.

Now of course, with Valentino’s first win since August 2015, the Valeban are now claiming it as the second coming of god. If they are to be believed, he is now a certainty to win every race for the remainder of the year and claim his tenth world title. He is far superior to every other rider and no one will be able to keep pace from henceforth……they may as well hang up their boots and gloves now. While I for one, would be absolutely over the moon at Valentino winning his tenth title, I am still to be convinced that this one singular performance at Jerez, all be it a master class in riding a MotoGP bike, is a signal that he will check out for the remainder of the years races. He has two super talented riders who are going to be doing everything they can to ensure that is not the case and anyone who writes off either Marquez or Lorenzo, either knows a hell of a lot more about MotoGP than I, or is delusional. I’ll allow you to be the judge of that.


Most fans have a favourite rider and that’s perfectly normal. What is….or at least was perfectly normal, was showing some respect for the other riders who risk their lives every second weekend to keep us entertained. To me, they are all heroes. The aliens of motorcycle racing. Riding gods each and every one of them. To me, they all deserve to be shown respect regardless of who I feel is my favourite rider or the one I would most like to see win the championship. You see, I’m not a bigot. Just a huge fan of motorcycle racing and the riders who continue to keep me in absolute awe of their skills and abilities.

If anyone is looking for me, I’m heading to join Mr. Rushdie in protective custody preparing for the onslaught from the Valeban…"
Excellent post Jumkie. Pretty much summed up all of my thoughts on Rossi. His talents are undeniable and I could never fault his commitment to racing and pursuit of glory. For me it was the clear and open media bias that meant that the likes of Gibernau, Stoner and Lorenzo were battling two riders - Rossi and his devoted Media.

I couldn't fathom why they couldn't grasp the positive effect of 'bigging up' whoever it was that was challenging Rossi. When F1 was and is so processional, surely talking up a challenger that helped make the championship more exciting could only be a win win for the sport they were commentating on.

But seemingly no. Every challenger had to be dealt with contempt, open to the kind of personal scrutiny that would over analyse every frown, every moment of frustration or even criticise their race win celebrations.

And the thing is, it ultimately diminished Rossi. Instead of appreciating his never die attitude that would virtually always give you a race to the finish, as a viewer you became more and more cynical to the commentators snide comments and the over exhuberance when he began to make a move.

'Here comes the Doctor, he's about to operate, that won't please Lorenzo, Stoner will be in an even worse mood, Gibernau was unfairly robbed but what a race'.

When, as a viewer, you don't feel you have to highlight Rossi's talents because they were being rammed (directly and indirectly) down your throat at every moment, it almost trains you to ignore them or worse still rail against them. You find yourself rooting for the others guys even more because you want them to upset the status quo and piss off the clearly infatuated commentators.

------------------

Just as a side note after watching the recent Austrian GP, does anything think that Rossi's foot dangle is becoming ever more ridiculous. I saw at least on two occasions where he looked like he was over extending his leg to remove cramp because it was stuck out so far. I know some claim it's to help with balance when slowing down but it does seem like a rather convenient ' don't go past me or you'll hit my extended leg'.
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August 24th, 2017, 09:26 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Pretty much exactly what the likes of you and I have been arguing on here since the events of late season 2015, which I have also applied retrospectively to that retired rider who cannot be named.

One reason I have done it is to try and put out a counter narrative, however futile that endeavour might be.
Casey Stoner's tenure in GP was undoubtedly shortened by the toxic environment created from Carmelo Ezpeleta's short sighted willingness to maximize ratings by artificially propping up Rossi. Rossi went from being used as the golden goose to a 'partnership' when Carmelo acted as his sport agent. This has done untold damage to the sport, but you wouldn't know it from its popularity. It has: 1. Created a soccer like atmosphere where rivals on the podium are booed. (Where I sat at COTA, Rossi fans spewed yellow smoke, rare for US, but they really made their presence noticed when they stood to cheer and clap Vińalez crashing). 2. A rolling rulebook, where 11th hour and mid-season changes make a significant impact on the outcomes. The withdraw of an almost unanimously rejected tire then re-enstated using an ultimatum disguised as "democracy" is one thing, but for the majority to be so easily bamboozled, worse be unaware, highlights how easily the records are manipulated. 3. Created a spineless media, a media that enables the vilification of rivals, lack of scrutiny for race direction, unchecked manipulation, contribution to the debacle of 2015, and fostering an echo chamber via the Kropo model of "ban early and ban often" surely employed by various media figures.

Edit to add 4. Rossi's toxic environment has also robbed us of potentially exciting and intriguing racing as we saw in Austria. No way Lorenzo leaves Yamaha had Lin Jarvis acted as a typical bopper. And I'm willing to bet a month's pay (admittedly not very much) that Stoner doesn't retire if these rivals we're treated like shit. Often I wonder what today's races would look like if Stoner and Marquez were teammate at HRC and Lorenzo and Vińalez at Yamaha.



Quote:
Originally Posted by payne by name View Post
Excellent post Jumkie. Pretty much summed up all of my thoughts on Rossi. His talents are undeniable and I could never fault his commitment to racing and pursuit of glory. For me it was the clear and open media bias that meant that the likes of Gibernau, Stoner and Lorenzo were battling two riders - Rossi and his devoted Media.

I couldn't fathom why they couldn't grasp the positive effect of 'bigging up' whoever it was that was challenging Rossi. When F1 was and is so processional, surely talking up a challenger that helped make the championship more exciting could only be a win win for the sport they were commentating on.

But seemingly no. Every challenger had to be dealt with contempt, open to the kind of personal scrutiny that would over analyse every frown, every moment of frustration or even criticise their race win celebrations.

And the thing is, it ultimately diminished Rossi. Instead of appreciating his never die attitude that would virtually always give you a race to the finish, as a viewer you became more and more cynical to the commentators snide comments and the over exhuberance when he began to make a move.

'Here comes the Doctor, he's about to operate, that won't please Lorenzo, Stoner will be in an even worse mood, Gibernau was unfairly robbed but what a race'.

When, as a viewer, you don't feel you have to highlight Rossi's talents because they were being rammed (directly and indirectly) down your throat at every moment, it almost trains you to ignore them or worse still rail against them. You find yourself rooting for the others guys even more because you want them to upset the status quo and piss off the clearly infatuated commentators.
Spot on.

I use Krops as something of a mine canary, a bellwether of sorts, because I've read the evolution of his blog from the beginning, so when he published his lament regarding Stoner's retirement, I thought perhaps this was a sobering moment for the future. It was not, given how easily Lorenzo joined the list of those vilified like Biaggi, Gibernau, Hayden, Stoner, and after 2015 Marc Marquez. Since then, Krops has joined other pseudo journalists taking up Dorna's talking points and even advanced them. As I've said before, the very notion of a penalty has been euphemized into a "time correction" to downplay Rossi's meager penalty that did nothing for which penalties exits-- as a deterrent! (Consider, they don't add a split second time to a person who jumps the start. The penalty is harsh for trying to gain a tiny advantage.) In the case of COTA, for cutting the track to avoid, get this, racing! The sport has been turned on its head, it's been perverted by the never ending need to pacify it's most prominent figure because the fandomob, the Valeban demands it.

Last edited by Jumkie; August 24th, 2017 at 05:15 PM.
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August 24th, 2017, 10:59 PM   #219
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I can't wait for the day he retires. I'll quietly crack a beer, say well done and congratulations, then cheer as the Pied Piper (Rossi) hopefully leads the rats out the gate of the city, never to return. I've had more than enough of the "Cult of Rossi" over the last few years.
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August 25th, 2017, 12:59 AM   #220
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