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February 28th, 2017, 01:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
People, especially world class athletes, tend to get provocative when provoked. After years of getting away with his shenanigans, Rossi poked the wrong guy this time and it backfired in spectacular fashion.

And no, that was not the reason he wasnt black flagged. He wasnt black flagged because Dorna didnt want his championship to go up in flames. It was clear for anyone without yellow goggles that what Rossi did deserved a disqualification
Couldn't agree more. The fact that Dorna thought Rossi's performance that day deserved 16 championship points was an undeniable indication of rider bias imo (not to mention that he chose not to attend the post race media event). Everything Dani said in the post race conference media event hit the nail on the head imo. I already had a lot of respect Dani before then, but even more afterwards.

I always wondered if Rossi was going to stay in the sport long enough to experience a younger era of riders that might test how graceful he could be in defeat/decline. Looks like the "10th title" is the carrot that is keeping him on track to do so.

I'll admit the guy can ride and has achieved a lot in the sport, but there is a very ego driven ruthlessness under the surface that I find hard to tolerate.
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February 28th, 2017, 01:37 PM   #12
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Sad that he won't let it go but it's going to be great to see how the Valeban now argues against him that without the perceived intervention he would've won in 2015.
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February 28th, 2017, 04:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniboy View Post
Like I said, his friends could have easily saved him from making that fuck up in the news conference but instead chose to feed the fire...
I don't think Rossi has a friend who would have the balls to tell him he was being stupid. What Rossi has surrounding him are a bunch of yes men that feeds his ego.
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February 28th, 2017, 06:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniboy View Post
Regarding what Marquez did on track, it may have been legal but it was also judged to be provocative and the reason why there was no black flag on the day.
Again, we fall back to Jumkie's argument. A woman walks down the street in a mini skirt and crop top that shows her cleavage, while wearing high heels which is perfectly legel and breaks no law in society. She is raped by a man who's defence is that she was dressed provacatively so deserved it. Is that right?

Dorna's even mentioning of Marq Marquez in the statement of Rossi's 'penalty' was downright ridiculous as per the above argument. You said it yourself; he raced within the rules no matter how provocative you or any other considered him to be. The man who didn't ride within the rules was Valentino Rossi himself, and if you want to talk provacation (that didn't break any rules), then calling marquez a cheat and a liar in front of him and most of the worlds motorcycle press 3 days earlier wasn't?

Bottom line is Rossi attempted to use mind games to help counter his rivals performance; just as he did with Sete Gibernau, Max Biaggi, Casey Stoner and others. He's made a career of it. But this time it backfired on him spectacularly and he cried like a baby. Also, how many countless times have we seen him provoke other riders on track?

As Casey Stoner said, any other rider that day would have got a ride through at the very least or possibly a black flag. Riders have recieved harder penalties for less, that is a well documented fact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Burning Barber View Post
Couldn't agree more. The fact that Dorna thought Rossi's performance that day deserved 16 championship points was an undeniable indication of rider bias imo (not to mention that he chose not to attend the post race media event).
Well said

Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
I don't think Rossi has a friend who would have the balls to tell him he was being stupid. What Rossi has surrounding him are a bunch of yes men that feeds his ego.
Agreed.
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February 28th, 2017, 10:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #22 View Post
Again, we fall back to Jumkie's argument. A woman walks down the street in a mini skirt and crop top that shows her cleavage, while wearing high heels which is perfectly legel and breaks no law in society. She is raped by a man who's defence is that she was dressed provacatively so deserved it. Is that right?

Dorna's even mentioning of Marq Marquez in the statement of Rossi's 'penalty' was downright ridiculous as per the above argument. You said it yourself; he raced within the rules no matter how provocative you or any other considered him to be. The man who didn't ride within the rules was Valentino Rossi himself, and if you want to talk provacation (that didn't break any rules), then calling marquez a cheat and a liar in front of him and most of the worlds motorcycle press 3 days earlier wasn't?

Bottom line is Rossi attempted to use mind games to help counter his rivals performance; just as he did with Sete Gibernau, Max Biaggi, Casey Stoner and others. He's made a career of it. But this time it backfired on him spectacularly and he cried like a baby. Also, how many countless times have we seen him provoke other riders on track?

As Casey Stoner said, any other rider that day would have got a ride through at the very least or possibly a black flag. Riders have recieved harder penalties for less, that is a well documented fact.




Well said



Agreed.
You should reread the actual statement of race direction regarding the incident, it explains their decision properly.
What you can't do is compare it to anything else but another racetrack incident (which is also referred to in the statement) which itself set the precedent by which VR's punishment was decided.
Bear this in mind too, if his friends had put the conspiracy theory to bed before the pc he would have approached the race concentrating on Lorenzo instead of Marquez.
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February 28th, 2017, 11:07 PM   #16
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The most provocative rider on the grid IS Rossi.
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March 1st, 2017, 12:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniboy View Post
He should let it go but because he genuinely believes it, he won't, and his inner circle of friends are probably sympathetic rather than objective to that which doesn't help. Regarding what Marquez did on track, it may have been legal but it was also judged to be provocative and the reason why there was no black flag on the day.
Bullshit.

There has never been a time in GP bike racing history when it has been illegitimate for any rider to race an opponent legally for position. See Ant West's comment at the time.

This is actually quite sad given the whole PI 2015 conspiracy theory has now been revealed to have sprung from what passes for the mind of that GP bike racing savant, Uccio.
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Last edited by michaelm; March 1st, 2017 at 02:14 AM.
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March 1st, 2017, 12:14 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #22 View Post
Again, we fall back to Jumkie's argument. A woman walks down the street in a mini skirt and crop top that shows her cleavage, while wearing high heels which is perfectly legel and breaks no law in society. She is raped by a man who's defence is that she was dressed provacatively so deserved it. Is that right?

Dorna's even mentioning of Marq Marquez in the statement of Rossi's 'penalty' was downright ridiculous as per the above argument. You said it yourself; he raced within the rules no matter how provocative you or any other considered him to be. The man who didn't ride within the rules was Valentino Rossi himself, and if you want to talk provacation (that didn't break any rules), then calling marquez a cheat and a liar in front of him and most of the worlds motorcycle press 3 days earlier wasn't?

Bottom line is Rossi attempted to use mind games to help counter his rivals performance; just as he did with Sete Gibernau, Max Biaggi, Casey Stoner and others. He's made a career of it. But this time it backfired on him spectacularly and he cried like a baby. Also, how many countless times have we seen him provoke other riders on track?

As Casey Stoner said, any other rider that day would have got a ride through at the very least or possibly a black flag. Riders have recieved harder penalties for less, that is a well documented fact.




Well said



Agreed.
To be fair, I don't think there are many limitations on what Dorna would do just to keep a title race open till the last round regardless of Rossi being involved.
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Last edited by michaelm; March 1st, 2017 at 12:30 AM.
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March 1st, 2017, 06:15 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniboy View Post
You should reread the actual statement of race direction regarding the incident, it explains their decision properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Bullshit.

There has never been a time in GP bike racing history when it has been illegitimate for any rider to race an opponent legally for position. See Ant West's comment at the time.

This is actually quite sad given the whole PI 2015 conspiracy theory has now been revealed to have sprung from what passes for the mind of that GP bike racing savant, Uccio.
Michael M answered it perfectly for me, but I am going to add that I have read race directions statement, maybe you should to, here it is for clarity:

Quote:
FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix
Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix Decision of the Race Direction
On 25th October 2015 during the MotoGP race of the Shell Malaysia Motorcycle Grand Prix, rider #46 Valentino Rossi deliberately ran wide on Turn 14 in order to force another rider off line, resulting in contact causing the other rider to crash.

This is considered to be irresponsible riding causing danger to other competitors and is therefore an infringement of Article 1.21.2 of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations.

Valentino Rossi was requested to attend a Race Direction hearing. Both riders involved were present at the hearing, both gave testimony, and video evidence was reviewed.

The decision of the Race Direction is to impose on rider #46 the addition of 3 penalty points on your record, according to Article 3.2.1. of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Disciplinary and Arbitration Code.

Valentino Rossi lodged an appeal with the FIM Stewards against the decision of the Race Direction. He was requested to attend another hearing with the FIM Stewards.

The FIM Stewards unanimously confirmed the Penalty Imposed by the Race Direction.

According to Art. 3.4.2.2 of the FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations no further appeal may be lodged when FIM Stewards confirm the previous decision of the Race Direction.

Since the rider already had 1 previous penalty point, the sanction for accumulating 4 penalty points is to start the next race from the back of the grid. Thus Valentino Rossi will start the Gran Premio MOTUL de la Communicat Valenciana from the last position of the grid.
You will note there is not one reference to any provocation in that statement. Simply that Rossi was found guilty of irresponsible riding. That was the official judgement/statement to what you refer to in your earlier post, NOT the Mike Webb interview where he said he "believed" Marquez wasn't blameless.

Quote:
What you can't do is compare it to anything else but another racetrack incident (which is also referred to in the statement) which itself set the precedent by which VR's punishment was decided.
Again you are mistaken, the official statement from Dorna is quoted above, you keep clinging to Mike Webb's interview as an official statement because he apportions some blame to Marquez. How does racing another rider for position set a precedent for forcing the other off track?

If you want to compare it to another racetrack incident, how come Dani Pedrosa wasn't punished in Le Man 2011 when Marco Simoncelli caused him (unintentionally) to crash? They were both racing for position after all.

Again you make a weak argument in defence of your bias to Rossi, which is why you aren't taken seriously at all on this forum.



Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
To be fair, I don't think there are many limitations on what Dorna would do just to keep a title race open till the last round regardless of Rossi being involved.
That's a good point. Qatar 2004 being a good example! However, I am skeptical as to whether that would be the case in more recent times.
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March 1st, 2017, 06:22 AM   #20
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Dani talking out of his ass as usual.

Nothing will ever change.

Mike Webb's bullshit statement post-Sepang was as prejudicial as it comes, and had zero basis in reality. That the FIM cited no such thing in their explanation of the penalty tells you everything you need to know.
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