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November 15th, 2016, 06:50 PM   #131
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Nice, I should get a set for my TW200.
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November 15th, 2016, 11:24 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJV80 View Post
Repost:

We all knew it was only going to be a matter of time. Winglets desinged for motorcycles, made in Taiwan and attached with double sided tape. Not so good at lowering your lap times, but a great way to lower any respect others may have for you.

May as well carry a sign that says "please piss on my face".

[New Product] The New KOSO MotoGP Style ?Wing Kit?! Will It Squelch Wheelies? | Motorcycle News | Webike Japan

They're probably selling like hot cakes over in Malaysia with all this high end street racing going on

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November 15th, 2016, 11:59 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by povol View Post
Simple really, you just design the fairings with aero caracteristic that creates downforce. My street bike has fairings that great downforce to a small degree because of the extreme acceleration
Downforce isn't created through acceleration, it is by relative windspeed.
Your bike at 40kph WOT isn't creating anything. Conversely, your bike (if it indeed does create any diwnforce) at 200 on a neutral throttle, will be.

An airbox with so-called "ram" capabilities will slow down the airflow thus increasing the pressure. Not the same function as a wing(let), that increases the speed of the airflow over one side, providing a pressure differential and hence, force.
I'm not saying it can't be done, I am saying I lack the imagination to conceive how it could.
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November 16th, 2016, 12:17 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr No View Post
Downforce isn't created through acceleration, it is by relative windspeed.
Your bike at 40kph WOT isn't creating anything. Conversely, your bike (if it indeed does create any diwnforce) at 200 on a neutral throttle, will be.

An airbox with so-called "ram" capabilities will slow down the airflow thus increasing the pressure. Not the same function as a wing(let), that increases the speed of the airflow over one side, providing a pressure differential and hence, force.
I'm not saying it can't be done, I am saying I lack the imagination to conceive how it could.
I'm struggling to understand this too. Aerodynamically, both downforce and conversely lift, are a function of a pressure differential. The idea that in the absence of this, downforce can be engineered through the intake in terms of the internal structure and bodywork ducting is fascinating though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJV80 View Post
Repost:

We all knew it was only going to be a matter of time. Winglets desinged for motorcycles, made in Taiwan and attached with double sided tape. Not so good at lowering your lap times, but a great way to lower any respect others may have for you.

May as well carry a sign that says "please piss on my face".

[New Product] The New KOSO MotoGP Style ?Wing Kit?! Will It Squelch Wheelies? | Motorcycle News | Webike Japan

There you go Phil - (if you're reading this). Did I not predict this a year ago? You can picture the 'plastics' now - hurtling over the Cat and Fiddle pretending to be Iannone at Lukey Heights (seagulls aside). Double sided tape ffs!!!

Inevitable really.
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November 16th, 2016, 05:09 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
I'm struggling to understand this too. Aerodynamically, both downforce and conversely lift, are a function of a pressure differential. The idea that in the absence of this, downforce can be engineered through the intake in terms of the internal structure and bodywork ducting is fascinating though.
If it is in an internal structure, any forces generated by a pressure change will act on that internal structure.
The only thing I can think of is some sort of duct utilising the merideth effect but pointed upwards. Good luck packaging that.

My take on wings is that they are there to lower the CoP, reducing the aero moment trying to make the bike rotate backwards (wheelie/taking weight the front), so you can keep it pinned harder for longer (oo err!) down straights.
This does feed into the acceleration thing, as you could probably be more aggressive with power delivery, but it does jackshit for low speed acceleration.
Then you have to make sure it doesn't mess up other characteristics like tip in as the outer wing will see less flow blah blah.
Usual race shit -> compromises and hoping the +ive outweigh the -ive
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November 16th, 2016, 06:09 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr No View Post
If it is in an internal structure, any forces generated by a pressure change will act on that internal structure.
The only thing I can think of is some sort of duct utilising the merideth effect but pointed upwards. Good luck packaging that.

My take on wings is that they are there to lower the CoP, reducing the aero moment trying to make the bike rotate backwards (wheelie/taking weight the front), so you can keep it pinned harder for longer (oo err!) down straights.
This does feed into the acceleration thing, as you could probably be more aggressive with power delivery, but it does jackshit for low speed acceleration.
Then you have to make sure it doesn't mess up other characteristics like tip in as the outer wing will see less flow blah blah.
Usual race shit -> compromises and hoping the +ive outweigh the -ive
I have no idea how they can do it and make it effective. An aerofoil suspended and sitting under the intake wouldnt work because the airflow would be disrupted too much. Apparently the teams couldn't agree unanimousley on rules for the winglets so they got scrapped. Another rule has then come in to freeze the design of the front cowl and mudguard to only allow one change during the season, so it seems they are expecting teams to try and build aero designs into the bodywork ... interesting to see how they could package something like that let alone have it as effective as external wings.
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November 16th, 2016, 08:08 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
Simple really, you just design the fairings with aero caracteristic that creates downforce. My street bike has fairings that great downforce to a small degree because of the extreme acceleration
As Dr No already said, Downforce has nothing to do with acceleration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
I'm struggling to understand this too. Aerodynamically, both downforce and conversely lift, are a function of a pressure differential. The idea that in the absence of this, downforce can be engineered through the intake in terms of the internal structure and bodywork ducting is fascinating though.
I imagine it is similar to the "F Duct' used in F1 about 5 years ago where they used a duct of air to stall the rear wing. They could possibly use an inverse pressure differential to create a small amount of downforce, however this may affect the properties for what the original intake was designed.

Quote:
There you go Phil - (if you're reading this). Did I not predict this a year ago? You can picture the 'plastics' now - hurtling over the Cat and Fiddle pretending to be Iannone at Lukey Heights (seagulls aside). Double sided tape ffs!!!

Inevitable really.
Jesus christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr No View Post
If it is in an internal structure, any forces generated by a pressure change will act on that internal structure.
The only thing I can think of is some sort of duct utilising the merideth effect but pointed upwards. Good luck packaging that.

My take on wings is that they are there to lower the CoP, reducing the aero moment trying to make the bike rotate backwards (wheelie/taking weight the front), so you can keep it pinned harder for longer (oo err!) down straights.
This does feed into the acceleration thing, as you could probably be more aggressive with power delivery, but it does jackshit for low speed acceleration.
Then you have to make sure it doesn't mess up other characteristics like tip in as the outer wing will see less flow blah blah.
Usual race shit -> compromises and hoping the +ive outweigh the -ive
Great post, beat me to it.
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November 16th, 2016, 12:18 PM   #138
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There's a sad song a singing from the timing clock on the wall, and the bell in the steeple too. And down in the garage an absurd little bird, is popping out to say, "Cuckoo."
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November 17th, 2016, 10:56 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamapony View Post
I am thoroughly frustrated with continuously searching without success. I hope my memory is not distorted and the statement came from some unsubstantiated source. I have not given up, yet.
You're not losing it. If I remember where I first saw it, it was on a set of pictures on MotoMatters comparing the intake Dani's bike to Marc's and the caption mentioned that the difference in shape was to induce downforce.
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November 21st, 2016, 05:35 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budoist View Post
You're not losing it. If I remember where I first saw it, it was on a set of pictures on MotoMatters comparing the intake Dani's bike to Marc's and the caption mentioned that the difference in shape was to induce downforce.
Thank you.
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