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August 1st, 2016, 06:40 AM   #21
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You must be a huge fan of Talladega Nights. Its a very realistic portrayal of NASCAR and I don't think they used any CG.
There was a time in my life when I used to be on board with all of the NASCAR bashers, but I've long since changed my tune on it. The fan base is a different subject altogether, but the racing, while I agree is not for everyone, takes a lot of courage. Running at 190+MPH with cars inches away from you on the sides, front, and back takes a special driver to do it successfully. There's been a number of F1 drivers who have expressed an interest in running the Sprint Cup cars for a reason; it's challenging.
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August 1st, 2016, 06:46 AM   #22
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There was a time in my life when I used to be on board with all of the NASCAR bashers, but I've long since changed my tune on it. The fan base is a different subject altogether, but the racing, while I agree is not for everyone, takes a lot of courage. Running at 190+MPH with cars inches away from you on the sides, front, and back takes a special driver to do it successfully. There's been a number of F1 drivers who have expressed an interest in running the Sprint Cup cars for a reason; it's challenging.
Your reply is basically the description of the movie, so I'll take that as a yes.
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August 1st, 2016, 06:49 AM   #23
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I suppose the significant difference was that Hunt was already a World Champion when Ronnie Peterson died. The Daytona incident happened comparatively early in Sheene's career and because it was captured by a documentary crew it turned him into a household name. That accident in many ways was his making.

Returning to Hunt, I always thought that his criticism of Patrese in the Peterson incident was unjustified. In the UK Channel 4 used to run a series called 'The real...(insert name here). It was more an unglamorous exposť than anything else. They broached that incident of course, but the most painful viewing was after Hunt had attended a budgerigar convention in some provincial city I can't recall and the CCTV footage captured of him being ejected drunk from a nightclub. Murray Walker laments about his old friend and commentary partner and testifies that the alcohol was a personal demon up until his premature death.
His criticism of Patrese always struck me as a defensive response from a guy who deep down knew he made contact with Ronnie. It's a heavy weight to bear knowing your move to avoid one driver, crashed another driver out who ultimately died from the injuries. Of course had they gotten Ronnie back to Sweden, the outcome may have been vastly different for his life. Winning the title certainly took some of the drive out, but the way he half-assed it in '79 for Walter Wolf Racing was a result of a guy who'd been forced to ponder his own mortality behind the wheel of a grand prix car.

I always thought Hunt's end was regrettable as he had completely cleaned his life up. He dropped the cigs and booze, and was taking care of himself. As a BBC commentator, he and Murray Walker were a fantastic pairing who got on quite well. He had proposed to his girlfriend the day before he died in 1993.
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August 1st, 2016, 04:09 PM   #24
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FIA Historic F1 series.



Lotus 49 crashing at Monaco 2014.

I wasn't aware of that series. I will have to start following it, that era was when I loved F1, formula Cosworth before modern aerodynamics, slipstreaming,overtaking 3 cars in 1 corner as I saw Alan Jones do once a few years later etc.

I actually liked the movie, I was a big Lauda fan, and I knew the story of that championship of course but that season was before live telecasts to Australia so I haven't seen the actual races. I watched it with a group of petrolhead old school friends, 2 of whom have raced cars, all of whom liked it.

Last edited by michaelm; August 1st, 2016 at 06:02 PM.
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August 2nd, 2016, 04:27 AM   #25
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A man after my own heart.

I know you were joking with it, but Rush is a sore point with me in particular because of all the bullshit Ron Howard spewed prior to the film being released about filming with THE REAL CARS on REAL RACE TRACKS. I genuinely thought we were going to get a gritty racing movie shot on grainy film stock to really simulate the era for all it's glory. Instead he released a highly processed film that was missing all of the grittiness that it should have had...and in spite of that, the public lapped up the movie like it was the pinnacle of race films. All I could think was, that it's been nearly 50 years since Grand Prix (James Garner ) was released, and for all of the money Hollywood spends on a budget, they can't even use the techniques John Frankenheimer perfected in the 1960s?

The thing is, Howard had access to all of the original GP cars from the era since most of them are used in the FIA Historic F1 series. That's what makes it head-scratching. He literally had the ability to do what he wanted, and instead wound up with a film that was short on the actual racing, and high on the bullshit drama.

We as diehard race fans know that racing brings it's own drama for better or worse, and you don't need to write much of a script for the story itself. The on-track product is an intrinsic part of the story. For all the talk we've spent on Sepang 2015, from a storytelling point of view, it was incredible. You could not script an event like that. 1976 F1 season was just that, and all the wasted time in that movie managed to take the edge off of it. Bruhl did a great job with Lauda yes. But Hunt was infinitely more difficult to capture because he had that natural charisma like Barry Sheene, and both were wild as could be. Biggest difference was Hunt lost the will to drive after Ronnie Peterson was killed on Monza in 1978 and retired in the middle of 1979. Sheene wasn't deterred by the danger when most would have retired after the Daytona crash.
Guys like Howard know what sells the movie is the story - not the racing. What happened during the race - is history. Movie makers are above all- story tellers.
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August 2nd, 2016, 06:19 AM   #26
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Guys like Howard know what sells the movie is the story - not the racing. What happened during the race - is history. Movie makers are above all- story tellers.
I disagree...racing is a story in itself that is evident. While you have to connect the races with something in between, the focus should have been the racing. Instead we were left with an overly processed film that was shot in digital format, and managed to take out a lot of the character of the era by that decision. It should have been shot in analog given the subject nature of the movie. That doesn't even get into the CG which just made it look visually worse.

Yes the film was highly rated, but it's not a good racing film by any stretch of the imagination. Frankenheimer shot Grand Prix in 70mm analog. Rush was shot in 35mm digital. The quality difference is night and day. Ron Howard is a storyteller yes, but he didn't tell a good story here as part of the story is based on how it is being represented visually, and he shit the bed there.

The critics can all fuck off since they clearly didn't bother to consider how it fit into the pantheon of race films. The standard as I mentioned earlier is Grand Prix (1966) and Le Mans (1971). Ron Howard clearly didn't pay enough attention to why they were able to be so good in spite of a passable story in Grand Prix, and a nearly non-existent one in Le Mans. I can only hope the Barry Sheene movie doesn't fall down the same hole.
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August 2nd, 2016, 06:28 AM   #27
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There was a time in my life when I used to be on board with all of the NASCAR bashers, but I've long since changed my tune on it. The fan base is a different subject altogether, but the racing, while I agree is not for everyone, takes a lot of courage. Running at 190+MPH with cars inches away from you on the sides, front, and back takes a special driver to do it successfully. There's been a number of F1 drivers who have expressed an interest in running the Sprint Cup cars for a reason; it's challenging.


And very few are successful at it once they try it. The snobs of the racing world who look down their nose at NASCAR, would piss down their leg if they sat in a couple of laps at Bristol. Not only is wrestling 3400 pound cars physically exhausting, doing it at those speeds while beating and banging on one another is mentally exhausting as well. I just grin and say to my self every time i here some know it all talk shit about NASCAR, " he truly has no fucking idea"
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August 2nd, 2016, 02:14 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
I disagree...racing is a story in itself that is evident. While you have to connect the races with something in between, the focus should have been the racing. Instead we were left with an overly processed film that was shot in digital format, and managed to take out a lot of the character of the era by that decision. It should have been shot in analog given the subject nature of the movie. That doesn't even get into the CG which just made it look visually worse.

Yes the film was highly rated, but it's not a good racing film by any stretch of the imagination. Frankenheimer shot Grand Prix in 70mm analog. Rush was shot in 35mm digital. The quality difference is night and day. Ron Howard is a storyteller yes, but he didn't tell a good story here as part of the story is based on how it is being represented visually, and he shit the bed there.

The critics can all fuck off since they clearly didn't bother to consider how it fit into the pantheon of race films. The standard as I mentioned earlier is Grand Prix (1966) and Le Mans (1971). Ron Howard clearly didn't pay enough attention to why they were able to be so good in spite of a passable story in Grand Prix, and a nearly non-existent one in Le Mans. I can only hope the Barry Sheene movie doesn't fall down the same hole.
For guys like us - agree. But I wouldn't expect Howard to try to match up or out-do the classics. I'm sure if Spielberg made the film - it would have satisfied the needs of hardcore racing aficionados. If you ever watched his film "Empire Of The Sun" you'd see what I mean. Attention to authenticity was paramount. His budget I expect, was probably 40 times what Howard's was. I was a projectionist for 22 years (how I could afford to race with so few sponsors) and worked for many screening rooms for some of the top directors in the business, and have also lamented the way CG cheaply turns so many potentially great films into comic books. I'm sure that there's great pressure from finance companies to use CG to keep costs down, and in light of the huge number of films being released cheaply, he was under pressure to do the film on a lesser budget as it's potential at the box office was relatively limited in a market so focused on teens and tweens who never heard of Nicky Lauder.
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August 2nd, 2016, 02:50 PM   #29
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[/B]
And very few are successful at it once they try it. The snobs of the racing world who look down their nose at NASCAR, would piss down their leg if they sat in a couple of laps at Bristol. Not only is wrestling 3400 pound cars physically exhausting, doing it at those speeds while beating and banging on one another is mentally exhausting as well. I just grin and say to my self every time i here some know it all talk shit about NASCAR, " he truly has no fucking idea"
No doubt there are particular and peculiar skills to oval track racing, which other race drivers, even F1 drivers, frequently prove unable to master. The speed together with the close proximity of the cars is impressive as well.

Too many yellow flags for me though, which sometimes seem contrived to produce a close race.
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August 2nd, 2016, 03:51 PM   #30
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No doubt there are particular and peculiar skills to oval track racing, which other race drivers, even F1 drivers, frequently prove unable to master. The speed together with the close proximity of the cars is impressive as well.

Too many yellow flags for me though, which sometimes seem contrived to produce a close race.
There is no doubt it goes on, but if you go to a race, you kind of appreciate the yellows as a break for the fan himself and it sometimes puts different strategies into motion. Plus, restarts are kind of cool when everyone is on fresh tires digging for positions that will be hard to obtain after 10 laps or so. I have been to just about every kind of race in my life and for entertainment value, Nascar cant be beat. Attending any kind of road race is a labor of love, its not hard to figure why so few enjoy it. Drag racing is insane for about 20 minutes, then you are seeking shelter from the sun, the sound and the smell, which are all overwhelming. Besides GP, my favorite racing is probably Indy oval racing, them boys have big big balls. 230 mph open wheel to wheel with concrete and fencing waiting for a mistake. I remember a few years back, they had to cancel an Indy race at Texas speedway because the banking and speed were inducing g loc. Thats some serious shit right there.
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