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May 21st, 2016, 11:45 AM   #81
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So Ducati themselves were relaxed about him depriving them of a dual podium by allowing his ambition to outweigh his talent, and his 2 in 7 finishing rate in his last 7 races?
At Ducati they had years to evaluate Iannone and Dovi, whatever happened in just a few races wouldn't have changed their choice. Lorenzo's contract is said to be in the region of 24 millions -- when a rider can command that much, he can command also some collaterals... And when you spend so much on a rider, you want his teammate to have a collaborative attitude.
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May 21st, 2016, 03:07 PM   #82
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Totally disagree.
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May 21st, 2016, 03:57 PM   #83
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At Ducati they had years to evaluate Iannone and Dovi, whatever happened in just a few races wouldn't have changed their choice. Lorenzo's contract is said to be in the region of 24 millions -- when a rider can command that much, he can command also some collaterals... And when you spend so much on a rider, you want his teammate to have a collaborative attitude.
3 finishes in 9 races (half a season) then, on a bike which Gigi thinks (rightly or wrongly) is championship capable.

I was a fan, liked him in moto 2, thought he was shaping to be the next big thing and still think he is intrinsically faster than Vinales, but he also still seems to be crazy Joe.

If you are saying Lorenzo and others wouldn't want him as a team-mate because they see him as the moto GP equivalent of Kvyat, fair enough. I think it is past the stage of saying that they are scared he is better than them though, he is 26, no longer a rookie and shows no signs of becoming sufficiently strategically/tactically aware to put a consistent season together.

Last edited by michaelm; May 21st, 2016 at 05:57 PM.
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May 21st, 2016, 04:48 PM   #84
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In Argentina it was said Iannone had a contract with Ducati's factory team, ready to be signed in Jerez. After the incident with Dovi it was ripped up and supposedly negotiations re started with the battle with Dovi for the seat in the team.
Maybe it didn't do him a lotion good credit wise, when Dovi got up and pushed his bike over the line to gain points. Instead of doing likewise Iannone was shown sat on a white plastic garden chair that the marshals were using. I know he could've been unable due to injury, but it didn't look good from an onlookers perspective.
The team didn't look impressed at Iannone that day, but Dovi got a good reception from them.
Little things add up...
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May 22nd, 2016, 09:33 AM   #85
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just for the sake of irony, i wish next year iannone on the suzuki to beat vinales on the yamaha
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May 22nd, 2016, 09:55 AM   #86
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just for the sake of irony, i wish next year iannone on the suzuki to beat vinales on the yamaha
Iannone is better in a race imo, Vinales is good on a single lap but overall race pace is in question.
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April 29th, 2019, 01:56 AM   #87
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Wonder how Vinales would have done if he had stayed at Suzuki? I reckon he'd be in a better position both championship and mentally had he stayed.
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April 29th, 2019, 05:10 AM   #88
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Wonder how Vinales would have done if he had stayed at Suzuki? I reckon he'd be in a better position both championship and mentally had he stayed.
We can speculate this to death, but I don't think we'll ever really know the truth. It may be that that he's burning out quicker than others and can't mentally keep up. How many times have we seen riders lauded as the next-big-thing - only to find they'd peaked in the previous season? There was just so much pressure on him to be just that when he went to Yamaha. Remember when Lorenzo became Rossi's teammate? He immediately started giving Rossi fits and after some spectacular high-sides started beating Rossi on a regular basis. Vinales is clearly not able to fill Lorenzo's shoes. Much as I'm not a Rossi fan - I think it's way to easy and convenient to blame him for Vinales' failing to live up to expectations.
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April 29th, 2019, 05:24 AM   #89
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We can speculate this to death, but I don't think we'll ever really know the truth. It may be that that he's burning out quicker than others and can't mentally keep up. How many times have we seen riders lauded as the next-big-thing - only to find they'd peaked in the previous season? There was just so much pressure on him to be just that when he went to Yamaha. Remember when Lorenzo became Rossi's teammate? He immediately started giving Rossi fits and after some spectacular high-sides started beating Rossi on a regular basis. Vinales is clearly not able to fill Lorenzo's shoes. Much as I'm not a Rossi fan - I think it's way to easy and convenient to blame him for Vinales' failing to live up to expectations.

We'll never know.

Yes, pressure from taking the Yamaha contract. A proven race and championship winning ride. Agree it's all speculation, but I can't help but feel he would have developed in a more linear fashion had he stuck with the Suzuki ride. Much can be also said about Yamaha's apparent loss of development direction evidenced by performances across last few seasons.
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April 30th, 2019, 01:37 AM   #90
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I think the answer is pretty simple really. To me it's the tyres. As Jum bought up once or twice, tyres are the most crucial thing to a rider, moreso than the bike itself. Stoner proved a tyre & rider can overcome a mediocre bike when bridgestone developed a tyre to suit the Ducati. As soon as his preference was removed from the allotment, he went from looking like a riding god, to looking like a rider who saw god when the Ducati tried to kill him.

Vinales ended at Suzuki and started at Yamaha with a tyre he was comfortable with, and his results justifiably had him as a contender. Early in the 2017 season, the bullshit rider vote ordered by Dorna on behalf of Rossi, resulted in his tyre preference being removed from the allocation available and his results suffered from that moment on. I'm sorry Mav, but your prefered tyre is unavailable as of now, we all agreed you can't have it. Try this one, we all think it's better than the other one. Thanks.

While I'm not putting Vinales in Stoners company as a rider, I see directly comparible results when their prefered tyre was removed from the available allotment. Both were pretty dominant at the time up until there tyre was removed, then results went south dramatically in comparison. Rossi proved how crucial tyres were when he threw Michelin under the bus in preference to Bridgestone in 2008, then went and beat Stoner to the Championship. Stoner lost his prefered tyre, and Rossi gained a tyre he prefered, and the championship went accordingly.

Pretty simple IMO. IT'S THE TYRES.
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