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April 22nd, 2016, 06:19 PM   #81
Gaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paparazzo View Post
This 'SNS' bullshit is just another exaggeration created by this forum to undermine Valentino and his achievements. This is the reason why OP can not find any concrete information not even from the great Google. I watched the race and remember it like yesterday. Elias was wired, riding out of his skin, and out dragged VR in a photo finish with Kenny right behind them. He could have easily been 3rd and no one would be discussing this SNS bullshit.


Nope.

Chatter of SNS tyres as they are called has been ongoing for years and actually precedes your great Rossi (fuck, it actually may even pre-date the internet as we know it today)

Evidence is there that they exist, Michelin have confirmed as much with their late compound deliveries throughout the years including photographs posted in this forum.

Disbelieve all you wish, they existed during the tyre war years as even the articles linked quote words such as 'tyres made specifically for Pedrosa' which indicates that they were custom tyres.

Sure, by all means turn a blind eye if one wishes but the facts remain that evidence indicates that SNS tyres existed (Edwards was quoted as saying that he could not ride Valentino's tyres' etc)
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April 22nd, 2016, 06:48 PM   #82
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I'm not denying they existed, but the 'advantages' given are greatly exaggerated by your disciples here. Posters here make as if all you needed to win was bolt on SNS's and the wins will come. Very comical. The fact there little information in the internet tells you they were not as important and not as available as you and yours here claim. You can fool the new to the sport fans with SNS bullshit being some sort of panacea worth seconds/lap but you aren't fooling any fans who've been around for decades, but feel free to carry on with your nonsense....
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April 22nd, 2016, 06:52 PM   #83
Gaz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paparazzo View Post
I'm not denying they existed, but the 'advantages' given are greatly exaggerated by your disciples here. Posters here make as if all you needed to win was bolt on SNS's and the wins will come. Very comical. The fact there little information in the internet tells you they were not as important and not as available as you and yours here claim. You can fool the new to the sport fans with SNS bullshit being some sort of panacea worth seconds/lap but you aren't fooling any fans who've been around for decades, but feel free to carry on with your nonsense....
Personally I believe that there can be little doubt that the SNS (if they suited) provided a rider with a weapon that perhaps allowed them a better performance than may otherwise have been possible, and yes, the Elias win is a great example of that.

However, irrespective of having tyres made specifically for you or not, you must still ride the race and manage it in order to be able to achieve the best results possible or that the tyres allow.

An interesting comparison I find is the total disregarding of the possible advantages of having a tyre manufactured to your very requirements as being bunkum in terms of the possible improved results, whilst many at the same time will say that the Ducati power allowed it to achieve rsults of which it was not worthy.
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April 22nd, 2016, 07:08 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paparazzo View Post
I'm not denying they existed, but the 'advantages' given are greatly exaggerated by your disciples here. Posters here make as if all you needed to win was bolt on SNS's and the wins will come. Very comical. The fact there little information in the internet tells you they were not as important and not as available as you and yours here claim. You can fool the new to the sport fans with SNS bullshit being some sort of panacea worth seconds/lap but you aren't fooling any fans who've been around for decades, but feel free to carry on with your nonsense....
It cuts both ways. I personally don't think they gave him a significant advantage over his major rivals, but as I have also said Catch 22 applied and you had to have the tyres to be a rival, as Toni Elias' only race win in a season where he finished more than 15 seconds behind in many races rather demonstrates.

Again, you and that entirely separate poster are very happy to demean 2 riders in MM and JL who have 5/9 world titles between them and actually accuse them of stealing JL's last one, so you will have to forgive me for finding your outrage about Rossi being demeaned hypocritical.
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April 22nd, 2016, 07:23 PM   #85
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Rossi said he would quit the sport if he didn't get the Bridgestone. You can fool yourself all you want that tires didn't play a significant advantage for Rossi. But you'll need to explain his logic for wanting to go home if he didnít get his way with tires. Rossi was never threatening to quit over tires when he was enjoying SNS.

There is no mistaking the fact SNS were THEE significant factor in all of Rossi's "titles" from 2001-2005. That this is debatable is mind-boggling, especially given the underlying message repeated and repeated every interview where riders talk about tire choice being the overwhelming factor that impact their result.

Paraphrasing:

Qatar: Lorenzo, choosing the right tire resulted in my win. Rossi, I may have chose the wrong tire.

Argentina: Marquez, im glad we got to use the tire choice rather than the safety tire, it helped me win. Rossi, I couldn't be as fast on the tires on my second bike.

Austin: Marquez, i chose the right tires and managed the race. Rossi, I crashed because these tires don't allow mistakes.

Jerez: I guarantee they'll talk about how the tire choice made the difference.

You guys hear this over and over and over and over, and you're still gonna sit there and think, hey, maybe custom tires didn't really make a difference? Holy shit!


Content Warning: Look TITTIES (.)(.)

Last edited by Jumkie; April 22nd, 2016 at 07:31 PM.
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April 22nd, 2016, 07:59 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Rossi said he would quit the sport if he didn't get the Bridgestone. You can fool yourself all you want that tires didn't play a significant advantage for Rossi. But you'll need to explain his logic for wanting to go home if he didnít get his way with tires. Rossi was never threatening to quit over tires when he was enjoying SNS.

There is no mistaking the fact SNS were THEE significant factor in all of Rossi's "titles" from 2001-2005. That this is debatable is mind-boggling, especially given the underlying message repeated and repeated every interview where riders talk about tire choice being the overwhelming factor that impact their result.

Paraphrasing:

Qatar: Lorenzo, choosing the right tire resulted in my win. Rossi, I may have chose the wrong tire.

Argentina: Marquez, im glad we got to use the tire choice rather than the safety tire, it helped me win. Rossi, I couldn't be as fast on the tires on my second bike.

Austin: Marquez, i chose the right tires and managed the race. Rossi, I crashed because these tires don't allow mistakes.

Jerez: I guarantee they'll talk about how the tire choice made the difference.

You guys hear this over and over and over and over, and you're still gonna sit there and think, hey, maybe custom tires didn't really make a difference? Holy shit!


Content Warning: Look TITTIES (.)(.)
Based on that logic, than everyone's titles are based on tires. Lorenzo won last year because of his tires, and all of Marc's titles are because of his tires.

As they say, it's gotta be the shoes!
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April 22nd, 2016, 08:16 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tps7c View Post
Based on that logic, than everyone's titles are based on tires. Lorenzo won last year because of his tires, and all of Marc's titles are because of his tires.

As they say, it's gotta be the shoes!
Absolutely correct, and also absolutely no problem as long as everyone has access to tyres which suit them. Look up contemporary reports as to why Kawasaki (permanently) and Suzuki (temporarily) left the sport, and to what Ducati attributed their diminishing competitiveness, after a control tyre made to suit Hondas and Yamahas was brought in.

I actually had no problem with Rossi getting the Bridgestones in 2008 per se and was possibly the only Stoner fan who supported Jumkie's Rossi fan mate Roger in the voluminous multiple tyre wars threads at the time. What has subsequently emerged about how he managed to get them which I concede will never be proven is another matter however, as is if they actually took away the tyre which best suited the Ducati, which I also regard as unproven.

Last edited by michaelm; April 22nd, 2016 at 08:59 PM.
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April 22nd, 2016, 08:38 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tps7c View Post
Based on that logic, than everyone's titles are based on tires. Lorenzo won last year because of his tires, and all of Marc's titles are because of his tires.

As they say, it's gotta be the shoes!
Absolutely.

Without tyres that suit the rider/bike combination then quite simply that rider/bike combination cannot be competitive.

It has often been said that the most important part of racing is getting the bike setup for the tyres thus, the tyres are more critical than the bike and given that both allow the rider to produce, the tyres are more important than the rider (debateable I know).

The issue that most people have (and Mike has touched on it) is that for a great many years, the tyres were allocated based on preferences of the manufacturer as to who would get what compound of tyre etc. Logic would say that the more powerful the rider for that manufacturer, then the more likely the chances that they would receive superior tyres of a choice of superior tyres.

This is not new in racing and is not the sole domain of Rossi as it had occurred before his appearance on the scene.

What it can and does do however is allow discussion surrounding 'what if he never had that tyre advantage' and given it is ALL opinions, we never know the answer, but just as I said elsewhere, he and all others had to ride them and finish on them.
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April 23rd, 2016, 05:19 AM   #89
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Gaz and Mike, I think what a lot of the Rossi brethren on this forum feel is that you guys are diminishing the rider portion of the total equation. And I'm not just saying this regarding Rossi, I mean any of the top riders. It's their ability to control the machine, tires, track condition, tire management, etc, that makes a champion. It's the amazing skills of the rider to be able to harness all the component of the win.

The way you guys make it sound is that these tires are the major factor, and I would say to that - put a robotic man on the bike then.
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April 23rd, 2016, 05:21 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tps7c View Post
The way you guys make it sound is that these tires are the major factor, and I would say to that - put a robotic man on the bike then.
That didnt work either...if it had then Pedrosa would have been multi year MotoGP world champion by now....
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