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April 20th, 2016, 04:34 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by MigsAngel View Post
Excellent find....it proves SNS were for everyone in MotoGP and not just Vale as some have tried to make out on this forum....
We already knew other riders got SNSs, the point is those SNSs were tailored for Rossi. Toni Elias says in that article he asked Michelin for softer ones, which he got, meaning previous ones were too hard. I know I've read he used Pedrosa's discarded SNSs (in other words, Pedrosa got SNSs too, which he didnít use). You have failed to grasp the meaning (typical) of this occurrence.

You can continue believing your naive sense of the world, but Michelin made a point to celebrate their domination by pointing out their "five titles" by saying, look, we have the ability to tailor our tires for the specific needs of each rider. Yes, they had the ability, exercising that ability for 'all' their riders for every race, you're a fool if you think they did that.




I'm sure a bit more Googling and will find the article where it's mentioned Toni used Pedrosa's tires. However meanwhile I found this mentioned about the 06 Estoril race:

"Edwards, in very un-Pedrosa-like fashion, did not try to overtake his championship contender/front-running teammate and did his best to let Rossi make a gap while he toiled in second." Migs, you should write a letter to your boy VR asking him why he is friends with a title cheater and fixer. You know, the shit he whined about to Carmelo when he summoned the CEO to his motorhome about Marc refusing to pass Lorenzo, remember?

Last edited by Jumkie; April 20th, 2016 at 04:48 AM.
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April 20th, 2016, 04:44 AM   #32
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^ So what will the antiboppers use to dismiss VR's achievements now? LOL
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April 20th, 2016, 05:24 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Daniboy View Post
^ So what will the antiboppers use to dismiss VR's achievements now? LOL
We might stop doing it when you guys stop dismissing the achievements of other riders, particularly their championships, which certainly has been going on for more than a decade now, culminating in extreme fashion last year including outrageous unsubstantiated claims by Rossi himself which continued through the off season.

I personally don't think the SNS tyres were much if at all an advantage over the other top, and hence also SNS equipped, Michelin riders, and have never seen a complaint about them from his main rivals in that era, being Biaggi, Gibernau and Hayden. I think it is indisputable those tyres existed, that only riders from the top teams got them, that Rossi had considerable input into their formulation by the testimony of his own team-mate, that they didn't suit Colin Edwards himself, and that they didn't suit Dani Pedrosa on one occasion. Edwards was a superbike rider however, Biaggi, Gibernau and Rossi from a 250 background.
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Last edited by michaelm; April 20th, 2016 at 05:37 AM.
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April 20th, 2016, 05:36 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
We already knew other riders got SNSs, the point is those SNSs were tailored for Rossi. Toni Elias says in that article he asked Michelin for softer ones, which he got, meaning previous ones were too hard. I know I've read he used Pedrosa's discarded SNSs (in other words, Pedrosa got SNSs too, which he didn’t use). You have failed to grasp the meaning (typical) of this occurrence.

You can continue believing your naive sense of the world, but Michelin made a point to celebrate their domination by pointing out their "five titles" by saying, look, we have the ability to tailor our tires for the specific needs of each rider. Yes, they had the ability, exercising that ability for 'all' their riders for every race, you're a fool if you think they did that.




I'm sure a bit more Googling and will find the article where it's mentioned Toni used Pedrosa's tires. However meanwhile I found this mentioned about the 06 Estoril race:

"Edwards, in very un-Pedrosa-like fashion, did not try to overtake his championship contender/front-running teammate and did his best to let Rossi make a gap while he toiled in second." Migs, you should write a letter to your boy VR asking him why he is friends with a title cheater and fixer. You know, the shit he whined about to Carmelo when he summoned the CEO to his motorhome about Marc refusing to pass Lorenzo, remember?
You don't need to google anything, just watch the first part of the race again as I did a couple of years ago; I can understand you not wanting to do so, although the Pedrosa torpedo didn't eventually sink Nicky's title hopes

Whatever they may have been capable of no way were Michelin producing multiple varieties of SNS tyres; they were eventually discontinued because it was ruinously expensive to produce them at all. My own theory is that it was something of a law of unintended consequences thing; along with continued improvement of the more versatile Bridgestone tyre in 2007, I doubt Michelin or their teams understood how dependent they were on the SNS thing. I seem to recall vague talk that Rossi hadn't opposed their removal.

Last edited by michaelm; April 20th, 2016 at 05:47 AM.
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April 20th, 2016, 05:42 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Daniboy View Post
^ So what will the antiboppers use to dismiss VR's achievements now? LOL


Lol do you even try to understand what you read before you open your mouth? The point is the tire was cooked to Rossi formula and that should give him the advantage over other riders. Pedrosa couldn't use Rossi tires but Toni Elias got his hands on the Rossi tires at Estoril and we know what happened.
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April 20th, 2016, 05:45 AM   #36
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My problem is not general knowledge in this area, but rather that I no longer have the specific knowledge at an academic and professional level I once had when I did some training to be a neurologist before electing to go a different path, hence no longer keeping up with the latest research in this particular discipline.

In general terms I don't believe Rossi would have had significant neurological deterioration at age 28 or 29 in the absence of significant brain, spinal or peripheral nerve injury. Jorge did have significant such trauma in his rookie year btw, suffering several concussions, eventually requiring him to miss races iirc.

Your major flaw is in logic anyway as I said, given Max Biaggi was mostly over 30 and hence probably Rossi's most significant opponent was not in his "prime" by your definition when Rossi raced him while Rossi was in his "prime", but Mick Doohan beat Max to win his 5th title at the age of 33 when Max was in his "prime".
The difference in reflex between the ages of 25 to 35 is so minute its probably not even measurable. Endurance will suffer a little bit in that time, but what gets athletes is the mounting affects of injuries and the location of those injuries in conjunction with what sport you play, or simply losing the edge mentally for whatever reason. Although you have to be in decent shape to compete in bike racing, its not a sport that requires the participant to be a physical specimen. There are numerous examples of bike racers who do well past 30, even 35. Biaggi won a WSBK title at close to 40, Shakey Byrne is like 70 and winning BSB titles.. Point is, its injury to fingers, wrists,elbows, shoulders and back that end racers careers, not lose of reflex.
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April 20th, 2016, 05:49 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
We already knew other riders got SNSs, the point is those SNSs were tailored for Rossi. Toni Elias says in that article he asked Michelin for softer ones, which he got, meaning previous ones were too hard. I know I've read he used Pedrosa's discarded SNSs (in other words, Pedrosa got SNSs too, which he didnít use). You have failed to grasp the meaning (typical) of this occurrence.

I'm sure a bit more Googling and will find the article where it's mentioned Toni used Pedrosa's tires. However meanwhile I found this mentioned about the 06 Estoril race:
Please provide the sources...as you say you have read and a bit of googling will bring up the evidence of the SNS.....then it should be easy to provide and refute that Michelin didn't special produce tyres for more than just Vale....

thanks
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April 20th, 2016, 06:00 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by povol View Post
The difference in reflex between the ages of 25 to 35 is so minute its probably not even measurable. Endurance will suffer a little bit in that time, but what gets athletes is the mounting affects of injuries and the location of those injuries in conjunction with what sport you play, or simply losing the edge mentally for whatever reason. Although you have to be in decent shape to compete in bike racing, its not a sport that requires the participant to be a physical specimen. There are numerous examples of bike racers who do well past 30, even 35. Biaggi won a WSBK title at close to 40, Shakey Byrne is like 70 and winning BSB titles.. Point is, its injury to fingers, wrists,elbows, shoulders and back that end racers careers, not lose of reflex.
Of course.

I was specifically debunking the claims of neurological deterioration and basically agreeing with an earlier post by you. I think it is fair to say Rossi might have lost something physically including reflex-wise at 37 in comparison with a 23 year old MM, but not at 27 or 28 against Stoner or Lorenzo, as you previously posted.

The whole point of Rossi's career and to his great credit is that he managed to stay on his bike, have no significant injuries, and maintain his mental edge enabling him to stay at or near the top for so long.

Last edited by michaelm; April 20th, 2016 at 07:18 AM.
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April 20th, 2016, 06:24 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MigsAngel View Post
Please provide the sources...as you say you have read and a bit of googling will bring up the evidence of the SNS.....then it should be easy to provide and refute that Michelin didn't special produce tyres for more than just Vale....

thanks
While I'm at it, should I Google the press release where Carmelo outlines his preferential treatment of Rossi?

I'll tell you what, I'll keep looking for Michelin's press release where they openly admit to providing Rossi the good stuff. Meanwhile, you look for the official Russian government press release where they openly admit to attacking and invading Ukraine with soldiers who removed their insignias. Both incidents apparently "conspiracies".
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Last edited by Jumkie; April 20th, 2016 at 06:47 AM.
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April 20th, 2016, 07:00 AM   #40
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Of course.

I was specifically debunking the claims of neurological deterioration and basically agreeing with an earlier post by you. I think it is fair to say Rossi might have lost something physically including reflex-wise at 37 in comparison with a 23 year old MM, but not at 27 or 28 against Stoner or Lorenzo as you previously posted.

The whole point of Rossi's career and to his great credit is that he managed to stay on his bike, have no significant injuries, and maintain his mental edge enabling him to stay at or near the top for so long.
My post was in agreeance with you as well. I just found a study that showed reflex's between age groups. The difference between 25-35 age group as i expected was almost immeasurable. 35-45 was considerably more measurable Oddly enough, the age group that was quickest was from 7-14.
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