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April 18th, 2016, 09:41 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I have no objection to him having a mystique and/or legend, I merely suggested you look up the definition.

I entirely agree human beings have a peak physiology which declines at varying rates with age, just not with your convenient definition of when Valentino's was in comparison with other riders including 2 of the 3 against whom he has ridden under discussion, with the exception of MM, whom he obviously has never and will never race with both in possession of their respective peak physiologies.

As I said by your self-defeating argument Mick Doohan must be better than Valentino given he beat Max Biaggi to a title at age 33; when Mick was 26 and at or near his physiological peak which involved having 2 functioning legs he was smashing the likes of Rainey and Schwantz, albeit likely with some help from his equipment, rather than Biaggi and Gibernau. That Doohan didn't win the title when he was 26 is part of why Mick himself has said in the past that Valentino is better than him, which is for reasons the reverse of those you have argued, being that Valentino managed to stay on his bike at the pinnacle of the sport uninjured and focused for so many years, much longer than 5 title winning Mick managed himself.

You perhaps don't read the posts in between yours and make your own posts regardless, but I am one on here who doesn't dispute Valentino's achievements, but rather have come latterly to assess his character adversely, having previously only taken issue with some of his more glory hunting fans.
Maybe you skip posts in between as well, because not once have I spoken disparagingly against another riders abilities (yes I spoke out about Jorge's bragging persona). AND, I also said that even though I'm a Vale fan, I don't respect what he did last year.

I simply take issue with the fact that most people on this forum are really no different than the boppers, they simply bop for another rider. Boop-Oop-a-Doop...

Last edited by tps7c; April 18th, 2016 at 10:13 AM.
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April 18th, 2016, 10:21 AM   #12
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Maybe you skip posts in between as well, because not once have I spoken disparagingly against another riders abilities (yes I spoke out about Jorge's bragging persona). AND, I also said that even though I'm a Vale fan, I don't respect what he did last year.

I simply take issue with the fact that most people on this forum are really no different than the boppers, they simply bop for another rider.
I have no problem with anyone calling me a Doohan-bopper or a Stoner-bopper (Stoner -boner was the most common terminology of the day).

If you do want me to be serious rather than continue to amuse myself by picking apart the flaws in your logic, you have a viewpoint which is rightly or wrongly at 180 degrees from most on here.

Many of those you dispute are quite long term followers of the sport, more than a few from the "golden age" 500 era, some even followed Hailwood before that, and have been fans of many riders from well before Rossi; I myself first became interested with Wayne Gardner's rise to prominence when Valentino was 5 or 6 years old.

What we all lost patience with was not Valentino's success but the continued vilification of any and all of his rivals, which very much preceded and continues to vastly exceed anything directed at Valentino, and in regard to which it has now become very apparent he is no bystander.

Last edited by michaelm; April 18th, 2016 at 10:29 AM.
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April 18th, 2016, 01:12 PM   #13
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I've been trying to find the Randy Mamola blog for Alpinestars. It was here where I'd say SNS were described most clearly. However, it has been taken down. I can't find the blog which was hosted on the Alpinestars website.

Edit: here is an article that has a link to Mamola's blog, but the link seems not to lead to the blog. However, if someone can find it post here. It was a fantastic blog with a wealth of inside knowledge.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120828llp.htm



Content Warning: Look TITTIES (.)(.)
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Last edited by Jumkie; April 18th, 2016 at 01:21 PM.
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April 18th, 2016, 10:50 PM   #14
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Everyone is in their prime at a different point in their lives. Would you not agree?
How convenient
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April 19th, 2016, 06:59 AM   #15
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How convenient
It's not convenient, it's the truth. Would you argue that every single human being goes through their prime at the exact same time?
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April 19th, 2016, 09:54 AM   #16
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Hi guys I'm currently in an argument on another forum with a couple of boppers and while I do believe the things I read on here to be right I do need some help finding the sources that confirm these things. I've googled but still had trouble finding things all I've really found is an article with Edwards saying that nobody can ride on Rossis tyres and now he's going to Bridgestone it gives him, Nicky and Dani a chance to develop something for themselves. Thanks for any help, I know its futile but I need to ram facts down these guys throats. Happy to put the name of the forum up as well.
So did you ever get your evidence / proof of SNS for Rossi?
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April 19th, 2016, 12:40 PM   #17
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It's not convenient, it's the truth. Would you argue that every single human being goes through their prime at the exact same time?
Agreed, I just find it a coincidence that as a Rossi fan you claim he was at his prime at the tail end of his run of titles, and now he isn't winning, he is past it.
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April 19th, 2016, 12:44 PM   #18
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Agreed, I just find it a coincidence that as a Rossi fan you claim he was at his prime at the tail end of his run of titles, and now he isn't winning, he is past it.
Ok, this is my opinion on that, and please note, it's just an opinion. Although he's clearly not as competitive lately as Marc or JLO, he's still riding pretty good. So I feel like if he was at his physical prime, he would most likely be even more competitive. That's all I'm trying to say here.
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April 19th, 2016, 02:08 PM   #19
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Ok, this is my opinion on that, and please note, it's just an opinion. Although he's clearly not as competitive lately as Marc or JLO, he's still riding pretty good. So I feel like if he was at his physical prime, he would most likely be even more competitive. That's all I'm trying to say here.
Your problem as always was with logic, as was repeatedly pointed out to you, in this case confusion of the general and the specific.

Of course a 23 year old physiological freak like MM is likely to have better reflexes than a 37 year old physiological freak like VR, although VR in all likelihood would still have better reflexes than most 23 year olds selected at random from the crowd.

It was the rest of your argument that was bunkum. There is no reason at all to suppose he had at all deteriorated physiologically when he initially encountered Stoner and Lorenzo. In fact he got a 1 year free hit against both given in his first year riding against both each was a rookie, JL on different tyres than the bike was now being developed for and Stoner definitely on tyres not of the first quality and riding for the newest team on the grid.

Last edited by michaelm; April 19th, 2016 at 02:29 PM.
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April 19th, 2016, 02:50 PM   #20
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Your problem as always was with logic, as was repeatedly pointed out to you, in this case confusion of the general and the specific.

Of course a 23 year old physiological freak like MM is likely to have better reflexes than a 37 year old physiological freak like VR, although VR in all likelihood would still have better reflexes than most 23 year olds selected at random from the crowd.

It was the rest of your argument that was bunkum. There is no reason at all to suppose he had at all deteriorated physiologically when he initially encountered Stoner and Lorenzo. In fact he got a 1 year free hit against both given in his first year riding against both each was a rookie, JL on different tyres than the bike was now being developed for and Stoner definitely on tyres not of the first quality and riding for the newest team on the grid.
Your problem seems to be with general knowledge of how the brainstem deteriorates as we age, every year. So of course his reactions were decreaing every year. the question is how much, which there is no way of knowing.
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