MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

MotoGP MotoGP Forum - MotoGP Class Motorcycle Racing Forum


Like Tree283Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
October 27th, 2015, 06:12 PM   #71
Member
 
OneDavid's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: United States

Posts: 47
Likes: 41

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairandsquare View Post
This is simple to do, based on facts:

1. What VR said about MM was correct - MM was deliberately slowing VR down - watch video replay
2. If RD believed VR there would be no penalty
3. MM should be disqualified considering VR got one penalty point for slowing JL in qualifying even though JL was on pole!
4. All videos clearly show MM hitting VR first
5. MM is the sole person responsible for this incident
6. MM let JL pass by him without a fight, then deliberately stayed with VR to slow him down!
7. If VR got penalty points for slowing JL in qualifying, even though JL was on pole, MM should be disqualified for slowing down championship leader
8. Provocations like what MM did are illegal and MM should be disqualified
9. MM did not fight JL, only fought VR
10. MM is guilty. Overwhelming proof. End of story.
I'm sorry since when was overwhelming proof you just making shit up? Go home Donald trump
OneDavid is offline  
 
October 27th, 2015, 06:57 PM   #72
Senior Member
 
MdubSTYLIE's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
From: Shovel's Club

Posts: 4,880
Likes: 1683

I Ride: your mom
No matter what happened before Rossi ran Marquez wide it was all clean and fine. Rough but fine. Name a time in either one of their careers with they didn't ride that way? And a nice deep block pass is fine too. But Rossi was throwing hand gestures and waging his foot at him obviously in rage. Then he looked over multiple times until he ran Marc nearly off track. Only nearly because at some point Marc had to chose to turn in, and when he did Rossi pushed off and Marc fell. Blaming Marc in the slightest means you know nothing about motorcycle racing.

How much longer do you noobies plan on sticking around? Just wondering.
Jumkie, Gaz, Arrabbiata1 and 3 others like this.
MdubSTYLIE is offline  
October 27th, 2015, 07:53 PM   #73
Senior Member
 
Jumkie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Mom's House

Posts: 24,725
Likes: 3980

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDavid View Post
I don't usually post on this forum much as I usually feel I have nothing to really add and I'll usually just get torn apart in these fucking debates. But on race pace.. Attachment 11445

In the graph you can clearly see that Rossi is losing about half a second to at most 1.5 seconds a lap battling with Marquez, who Jumkie and many others explained like literally thousands of times the past two days has struggled with race pace this year, especially early on, multiple times over and over again.

In case your a diehard Rossi or nothing follower who can't think for himself ( kinda reminds me of Hitler tbh) I'm assuming you never passed eighth grade algebra I. The x axis represents the lap number and the y axis represents lap time...so the higher the line the slower someone's going.

As you can see, Rossi wasn't really losing that much more on his rivals before the Marquez lynching (please don't say his knee was hurt FROM HIM BASICALLY RUNNING HIS KNEE INTO MARQUEZS HELMET causing him to lose .5 a lap) than he was after. So really, the only competition he had was Marquez in the race. Lorenzo and pedrosa clearly had better pace than him, as no true world champion would ever give up or let off or lose hope in a potential championship deciding race just because he felt the grand Prix was, after the incident, essentially a lost hope.

Additionally, unlike Ben Spies retired ass twitter account will tell you, Marquez was not asking for this. Rossi asked for this after accusing marc very harshly and personally(aka bullying) in front of the entire world that he thought Marc was purposely fucking him up. If you have ever raced before, which I can tell many of you have not and thus why you can't even begin to understand how racing really works, if at a certain point someone has just passed you and you are really mad at them for something else in a previous race or whatever, you WILL have more motivation to beat them, and thus, even though they are faster than them, you are determined to hold onto your spot just because it is the guy who you no longer like. However, Sepang is the first race this COULD HAVE happened at, not PI before the Tupac and Notorious BIG bitch feuding began. Was Marquez slowing him down? Possibly, but that's because he had every right to hold his place and was determined to do so, just as he has done in so many races before. A champion is not made from thinking "wow the guy who just passed me must be faster than me. I'll just back off. fuck it." A champion is made from never letting a guy beat you no matter how hard they try to. These are the very principles VR has stuck to and advocated his entire career, including times he wasn't fighting for the championship, but battling on track with people who were... Motegi 2010? Now suddenly those very principles are against him and FUCK IT MARQUEZ IS BRAKE TESTING ME

Also, it should be of no surprise that Marquez hit Rossi's bike that was running into him. Considering... Rossi was running into him? Marquez was stuck on the outside of Rossi at that corner. Rossi looked over like three times to make sure he was putting Marquez over there, and not just easily letting him into the inside so he could go for third. I refuse Marquez purposely went to the outside just to fuck with him At some point Marquez must of thought " alright he has to lean and do the corner now, we're almost completely off the track." However , Marquez starts to come over, Rossi says fuck no, Marquez gets hit on DIRTY, MARBLE ASPHALT NO ONE RACES ON AND HES AT LEANING ANGLE, easily falls from a understandable total lack of grip in that area.

Yes Rossi did this on purpose. Its really not even questionable. I keep seeing the there's an unwritten rule you don't fuck with guys fighting for the championship if you're not in it. This rule always seems to be bent in whatever direction is most beneficial to Rossi. Actually, its usually said a race is a race and everyone should just fight for track position, not championship position as that makes things boring, blah blah blah you see this in EVERY Motorsport. Now suddenly Marquez should just let him by just because hes not in the championship? Bullshit. We all know that if the people involved in this incident were completely and identically switched, the whole world would still be against Marquez, for Rossi. Its like political and religious beliefs, really. No one wants to admit that they're wrong even though they've realized they clearly are. They just want to see their side they started off win no matter what, as they refuse to change opinion. Marquez did not "run his bike into Valentinos " because Rossi was actually the one blocking in this case, NOT Marquez. Its an unwritten rule to not force someone into a position on the edge of the track where they have no way of staying in the race without just going off in the gravel or turning into the obstruction next to them. Thats unsportsmanlike, disgraceful, unprofessional, and honestly just such a huge bitch move.

Its weird knowing two weeks ago I actually wanted Rossi to win the title just because of the fact it would be cool to seea "legend?"come back from years of disappointment and failure to win one more championship at old age with all the odds stacked against him. Now, I hope he loses so much, even if I have to see Lorenzo's awful post race celebration. It is clear Rossi isn't a real racer anymore, as he thinks purposely forcing someone off track to the point where they had no choice that wasn't dangerous, is inside the rules. But if it was done on him in a complete reversal of scenarios? Blasphemy!
Dude, this post was sublime! Well done man.

How did we get so far away from sanity? How did the perpetrator become the victim and the perversion that has followed? Holy shit, the human specie went into crisis the moment it learned to rationalize wrong to be right.
Jumkie is offline  
October 27th, 2015, 08:31 PM   #74
Senior Member
 
Jumkie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Mom's House

Posts: 24,725
Likes: 3980

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairandsquare View Post
This is simple to do, based on facts:

1. What VR said about MM was correct - MM was deliberately slowing VR down - watch video replay
2. If RD believed VR there would be no penalty
3. MM should be disqualified considering VR got one penalty point for slowing JL in qualifying even though JL was on pole!
4. All videos clearly show MM hitting VR first
5. MM is the sole person responsible for this incident
6. MM let JL pass by him without a fight, then deliberately stayed with VR to slow him down!
7. If VR got penalty points for slowing JL in qualifying, even though JL was on pole, MM should be disqualified for slowing down championship leader
8. Provocations like what MM did are illegal and MM should be disqualified
9. MM did not fight JL, only fought VR
10. MM is guilty. Overwhelming proof. End of story.
1. Opinion. Rossi's accusations do not make anything fact. The video shows Marc battling for position, nothing more. The two anomalies do not prove intent.

2. Opinion. Race Direction did believe Rossi, and penalized him for his admission to deliberately running Marc off track. How does this prove Marc was at fault?

3. Opinion. You are not presenting any evidence here.

4. Now this one is interesting. Rossi ran Marc off the track. Any evasive action by Marc is AFTER Rossi perpetrated the action, so any contact was a consequence of Rossi's move. This has been one of the more fascinating ideations to come out of this incident.

5. Opinion. So Marc is solely to blame according to you. Please provide evidence, reasons. This is only a statement of opinion.

6. Opinion. Please provide evidence, do you have a quote from Marquez or something other than your perception?

7. Wait, you just repeated #3.

8. Well, this is exactly why I opened this thread, for you to provide evidence of this supposed "provocation". Do you have any?

9. Yes, so how does this prove Marc deliberately toyed with Rossi?

10. Opinion. You provided zero evidence to support any of your statements.
Arrabbiata1 likes this.
Jumkie is offline  
October 27th, 2015, 08:37 PM   #75
Member
 
OneDavid's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: United States

Posts: 47
Likes: 41

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
How did we get so far away from sanity? How did the perpetrator become the victim and the perversion that has followed? Holy shit, the human specie went into crisis the moment it learned to rationalize wrong to be right.
Honestly, like its not surprising to me that there are people who will not even come close to admitting that Rossi was in the wrong here. In no scenario for any rider or driver ever is it alright to purposely pit somebody into a position where the only decisions they can now make result in dangerous or race ending outcomes. I really do feel that Rossi's move is race ban or disqualification worthy. Since I started watching MotoGP in 2008, I can not actually recall a time when someone clearly, deliberately and purposely tried to run someone off track while looking behind to try to pin them to the outside of a corner. I mean its seriously mind blowing you could actually fight for it. In every incident I have ever seen in MotoGP and the lower classes, I have never seen anything like it. With Simoncelli and Pedrosa in Le Mans of 2011, clearly Simoncelli didn't intentionally take him out. Pedrosa and Hayden was (I hope) just a huge fuck up from Pedrosa that is unforgivable, but still just a fuck up, not entirely intentional crash(again I hope). And there are so many more examples, but in none of them do you see a rider wait for the other rider to catch up, pin him to the outside and just give him no good options whatsoever. Marquez had nowhere to run or hide, and the fact that Rossi did this is totally unsafe because it was not at all a racing incident, as it wasn't racing, as part of racing is not slowing down to wait for another rider to bash him off. Im pretty confident Rossi wasn't at all completely sure that Marquez would actually wreck, but clearly he was trying to put him off track.

That being said, in every incident like this in any other sport ever, whether its Formula One, basketball, baseball, soccer, american football, whatever, there are always people who will never stop supporting a certain team or players actions even though we all know that they know they are in the wrong. People like to start off with their beliefs and stick with them no matter what goes wrong. Its really political really - everyone sticks to their political beliefs no matter what because thats what their mommy and daddy told them. And just like Rossi, they will listen to everything he says no matter what. However, I have NEVER seen such a fucking lopsided support for one party over the other. usually its like 50/50, 60/40, 70/30 percent, but in this incident it is like 99% Rossi support and 1% not Rossi support. It really pisses me off how incredibly attached the MotoGP world is to Rossi. I don't even understand why. In no other sport can I recall such a fucking cult following where it seems that everyone supports the same person, even though they are clearly in the wrong! It is bad for the sport really, as people are only willing to watch for one person. Once he leaves, MotoGP will lose a ton of spectators, I fear. On the other hand it will be good because people can finally be a fan of somebody else.

I will never forget my first MotoGP race. Indianapolis 2013. Rossi was fucking around all the way back in like eighth place. Marquez crosses the line in first place - no cheers or anything. Lorenzo second. Pedrosa third. Silent.. Rossi makes a last lap dive bomb to make it up to fourth place and the crowd goes fucking bananas over the guy. Who gives a shit? Its fourth place and he's won so many titles over the years! Why the fuck is everyone so hung up on this guy? They're like god damn one direction and Justin Bieber fan girls

I guess people just started watching the sport when Rossi was in his prime 2008 and before, were told he was the best ever, and refuse to believe he isn't always the best ever anymore. People like to say they've always rooted for the winner, and as a result, you have this giant cult that refuses to believe Rossi could ever do any wrong. And it shows with the incredible amount of unexplainable hate directed towards Marquez shown on MotoGP Facebook comments.
OneDavid is offline  
October 27th, 2015, 09:51 PM   #76
Senior Member
 
Jumkie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Mom's House

Posts: 24,725
Likes: 3980

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneDavid View Post
Honestly, like its not surprising to me that there are people who will not even come close to admitting that Rossi was in the wrong here. In no scenario for any rider or driver ever is it alright to purposely pit somebody into a position where the only decisions they can now make result in dangerous or race ending outcomes. I really do feel that Rossi's move is race ban or disqualification worthy. Since I started watching MotoGP in 2008, I can not actually recall a time when someone clearly, deliberately and purposely tried to run someone off track while looking behind to try to pin them to the outside of a corner. I mean its seriously mind blowing you could actually fight for it. In every incident I have ever seen in MotoGP and the lower classes, I have never seen anything like it. With Simoncelli and Pedrosa in Le Mans of 2011, clearly Simoncelli didn't intentionally take him out. Pedrosa and Hayden was (I hope) just a huge fuck up from Pedrosa that is unforgivable, but still just a fuck up, not entirely intentional crash(again I hope). And there are so many more examples, but in none of them do you see a rider wait for the other rider to catch up, pin him to the outside and just give him no good options whatsoever. Marquez had nowhere to run or hide, and the fact that Rossi did this is totally unsafe because it was not at all a racing incident, as it wasn't racing, as part of racing is not slowing down to wait for another rider to bash him off. Im pretty confident Rossi wasn't at all completely sure that Marquez would actually wreck, but clearly he was trying to put him off track.

That being said, in every incident like this in any other sport ever, whether its Formula One, basketball, baseball, soccer, american football, whatever, there are always people who will never stop supporting a certain team or players actions even though we all know that they know they are in the wrong. People like to start off with their beliefs and stick with them no matter what goes wrong. Its really political really - everyone sticks to their political beliefs no matter what because thats what their mommy and daddy told them. And just like Rossi, they will listen to everything he says no matter what. However, I have NEVER seen such a fucking lopsided support for one party over the other. usually its like 50/50, 60/40, 70/30 percent, but in this incident it is like 99% Rossi support and 1% not Rossi support. It really pisses me off how incredibly attached the MotoGP world is to Rossi. I don't even understand why. In no other sport can I recall such a fucking cult following where it seems that everyone supports the same person, even though they are clearly in the wrong! It is bad for the sport really, as people are only willing to watch for one person. Once he leaves, MotoGP will lose a ton of spectators, I fear. On the other hand it will be good because people can finally be a fan of somebody else.

I will never forget my first MotoGP race. Indianapolis 2013. Rossi was fucking around all the way back in like eighth place. Marquez crosses the line in first place - no cheers or anything. Lorenzo second. Pedrosa third. Silent.. Rossi makes a last lap dive bomb to make it up to fourth place and the crowd goes fucking bananas over the guy. Who gives a shit? Its fourth place and he's won so many titles over the years! Why the fuck is everyone so hung up on this guy? They're like god damn one direction and Justin Bieber fan girls

I guess people just started watching the sport when Rossi was in his prime 2008 and before, were told he was the best ever, and refuse to believe he isn't always the best ever anymore. People like to say they've always rooted for the winner, and as a result, you have this giant cult that refuses to believe Rossi could ever do any wrong. And it shows with the incredible amount of unexplainable hate directed towards Marquez shown on MotoGP Facebook comments.
Well this thread was worth it just to read yours and Redwhip contributions. I feel the work is not done because I'm hoping someone like Kropo or a person with some "status " will attempt to justify their claim that Marquez bares any responsibility in all this. As I said, I consider it victim shaming. I'm particularly sensitive to this because in my line of work I see this play out routinely and often, its the ONE thing i have in 17 years not been able to mitigate. The world can be heinously cruel to victims of bullying. It plays out exactly like you see this thing play out between Marc and Rossi. Its no wonder why some of these kids commit suicide. Their world becomes a hostile environment all the time with no reprieve. They are blamed for an injustice perpetrated on them! Its really a form of torture. Administered by a collective, always in the majority, and typically the supposed authority (the adults in the room ) overwhelmingly sides with the bully. Its quite a fascinatingly awful situation to witness.

This is the predicament Rossi put young Marquez in, a position of the bully being supported while the victim is shamed out of his skin. I'm sure you read by now that Rossi even accused Marc of never being a childhood fan, even accusing Marc of lying that he never had Rossi's poster in his bedroom wall. What kind of fucking man says some shit like that and gets away with it? You can almost see the boppers nodding in agreement.

I sent this bit two Mdub and Frack earlier, every single kid who has moto raced in the last decade has loved Rossi. Kids do not have the ability to discern between assholes in sport. I can tell you I have met many kid motorcycle racers the times I've been around Benny (a friend who at the time was 13 year old when he won the American Red Bull Rookies Cup) absolutely worshipped Rossi. There is no doubt Marquez considered Rossi a hero. Which makes his personal vendetta based on paranoia against him all that more disturbing. So for him to hit below the belt like that was mean. I cringed when I read about Rossi saying that to him. There's a video in the Spanish media that reported it put Marc in tears when he tried to explain his version, in an interrogation room filled with men (Race Direction ) who are Rossi fans. That's when I knew I had to make a thread entitled The Case for Marquez. Krops bothered me when on his round up he placed partial blame on Marc, over absolutely no evidence except his idea that Marc was upset with Rossi over Assen. Connecting dots with a long bow. Notwithstanding, Kropo has made it his business to document and connect dots over how the RCV has hindered Marc all year! Yet he went completely silent on the question of possible Marc's early race pace difficult. A simple explanation that could have gone a long way, as you have pointed out, coincidently converged at a sequence on the track, which was tainted to be perceived as proof Rossi's paranoia was true. Anyone who has ever been falsely accused and gone through the hell of either try into prove their innocence can relate. Its a fucking shame. Victim shaming.


Here is another reason I was moved to open this thread. The employer I work now is a result of me leaving the previous one because the manager was a complete tyrant. It took a toll on me, made me take days off (something I've never done) unmotivated at work, physically sick and affected my personal relationships. Anyone who's ever experienced this can relate. It was hell to go to work. I hated waking up to go, hated being there, and dreaded coming back as I left every day. Rossi has destroyed and made Marc's work environment hostile! Now when Marc walks across the paddock amongst the sea of Rosy Fans he will have that awful feeling that some are looking at him with contempt. Did he deserve it? As far as I'm concerned absolutely not. Rossi deliberately ran him off and this is the ultimate violation of what we believe to be sacred about racing!! If anything the reverse should be true. Rossi should be forced out of the sport in disgrace.
Jumkie is offline  
October 28th, 2015, 12:26 AM   #77
Junior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2015
From: New zealand

Posts: 3
Likes: 4

You are looking at this thing too clinical. These guys are super human, egotistical out and out racers personified. The have thought about all day every day racing to get where they are. And you get someguy wanting to play tricks and deney you a world championship what else are you going to do. Its in your blood.. If you do not do something you would not be where you are. Marques actions are loathsome. His name in New Zealand is Mark-Arse. We like real racers down here. You probably heard about our heros real heros not ARSES.
BrettNZ is offline  
October 28th, 2015, 12:56 AM   #78
#22
Senior Member
 
#22's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
From: In Cider

Posts: 3,993
Likes: 1769

Jums, excellent thread with very valid arguments. Unfortunately you have to have reasoned logic to see it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steeeeeve View Post
No can. let's see how it works out for him.

but then again i can't remember Vale sandbagging to jack around for 3rd place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
So you still have no proof. Good to know.
Marc Marquez has been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion sadly....
#22 is offline  
October 28th, 2015, 01:01 AM   #79
#22
Senior Member
 
#22's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
From: In Cider

Posts: 3,993
Likes: 1769

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairandsquare View Post
This is simple to do, based on facts:

1. What VR said about MM was correct - MM was deliberately slowing VR down - watch video replay
2. If RD believed VR there would be no penalty
3. MM should be disqualified considering VR got one penalty point for slowing JL in qualifying even though JL was on pole!
4. All videos clearly show MM hitting VR first
5. MM is the sole person responsible for this incident
6. MM let JL pass by him without a fight, then deliberately stayed with VR to slow him down!
7. If VR got penalty points for slowing JL in qualifying, even though JL was on pole, MM should be disqualified for slowing down championship leader
8. Provocations like what MM did are illegal and MM should be disqualified
9. MM did not fight JL, only fought VR
10. MM is guilty. Overwhelming proof. End of story.
You'd make a great lawyer. Try that line in court and see how well it goes down with a judge won't you?
#22 is offline  
October 28th, 2015, 01:04 AM   #80
Blue Smoker
 
Arrabbiata1's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
From: Out of Nowhere

Posts: 6,907
Likes: 2566

I Ride: The original
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettNZ View Post
You are looking at this thing too clinical. These guys are super human, egotistical out and out racers personified. The have thought about all day every day racing to get where they are. And you get someguy wanting to play tricks and deney you a world championship what else are you going to do. Its in your blood.. If you do not do something you would not be where you are. Marques actions are loathsome. His name in New Zealand is Mark-Arse. We like real racers down here. You probably heard about our heros real heros not ARSES.
Sorry mate, but Aaron Slight could be a complete arse when he wanted to be.
Gaz and Mick D like this.
Arrabbiata1 is offline  
Reply

  MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > MotoGP

Tags
case, marquez



Search tags for this page
Click on a term to search for related topics.
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I rest my case... xx CURVE xx MotoGP 10 March 22nd, 2009 02:28 PM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2018 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.