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October 4th, 2015, 06:38 AM   #81
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Thanks for the input Kropo.

As I understand he turned down Ducati big money to stay in GP. It's a tough decision either way, what would any of us do? Sometimes these offers come with plenty of persuasion tactics. Ive never obviously been in these situations but I personally know riders who have consternated in such situations at the AMA level, and I would be conflicted myself. It's NOT as simple as money versus competitive machine, as my friend Migs framed it. Just for a minute go back gentz and consider our own unkowns about the Honda Proddy racer, and the rumors that were persistent. Sure we had our opinions, but still reserved an element of doubt in our own beliefs. Consider yourself at the table, the offer coming with a bunch of lofty predictions and promises. How many riders tried the Ducati, were they all chasing money? Those who accepted the RCV-RS, were they all chasing money? (As if this is a bad thing when u consider the reality of the only 4 competitive machines, lets be honest.)

I know personally a friend who turned down a lower category Tech3 ride when he was very young and full of hope for the future. He had a host of "good" reasons. I often look back at that decision as possibly a missed opportunity. But at the time, Tech3 lower category appeared shambolic in terms of competitiveness. Yet we associate it as a top team in GP, well, it is, in MotoGP. But go back and read the threads here to when Smith was offered a ride in GP after what many of us considered unworthy results in Moto2? Based on those results he may have rotted in Moto2. But this turned out to be an exception, the question is, who knew?

If it were as clear as money versus competitive machine, it might be an easier decision. But often how it's not, and consider how much "value"'is assigned to the monetary part of that deal. We all for example consider the Kawasaki to be the top machine in Wsbk. So how much more money would be assigned as a "value" compensation for taking an Aprilia seat, a seat we consider less competitive than a Kawasaki? Now consider the same logic for an Aprilia versus Honda, how much real dollars is valued for a Honda then over an Aprilia? Seriously, give me a figure? Is the Aprilia worth $ 10,000, $50,000 $80,000 etc more over the Kawasaki because it is less competitive? See how it's not that easy?

Consider also the changes in fortunes, Kawasaki was costing Shane the championship when they used Mitsubishi electronics. Clearly the machine and rider were capable of fast laps, as he notched pole position like gang busters. Then during the race the tires became saw dust. Once they switched to Marelli, this dramatically changed. Aprilia Wsbk started the season very similar to DucatiGP, and have both faded a bit, why? How much would u factor this into yiur assessment? Meanwhile Wsbk Ducati and Honda seem to have ascended a bit, given van der Marks podium recently and Davies double at Laguna. Even J. Rae had a mixed bag with Honda. So who is to say it wont have a change? I personally believe from the comfort of my Lazy Boy that the Fireblade sucks, but im not the guy getting offers. Im sure Honda are not telling Nicky, hey our machine sucks bro. Hi Nicky, remember us? How are those championship Hondas doing sitting in your garage, the AMA one and the GP one? C'mon Nicky, lets try to get a Wsbk one.

Last edited by Jumkie; October 4th, 2015 at 06:56 AM.
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October 4th, 2015, 06:48 AM   #82
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Good post, Jum.
Aside from the bike and the pay-packet, you'd have to also think of the team you're going to, the support and the professionalism.
I'm don't possess a professional racer's mentality, but I believe I'd take a decent whack on pay if I could go to a team I would trust.
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October 4th, 2015, 05:20 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
I know personally a friend who turned down a lower category Tech3 ride when he was very young and full of hope for the future. He had a host of "good" reasons. I often look back at that decision as possibly a missed opportunity. But at the time, Tech3 lower category appeared shambolic in terms of competitiveness. Yet we associate it as a top team in GP, well, it is, in MotoGP. But go back and read the threads here to when Smith was offered a ride in GP after what many of us considered unworthy results in Moto2? Based on those results he may have rotted in Moto2. But this turned out to be an exception, the question is, who knew?
Tech 3 knew. They knew what he was on, and what he was getting out of it. Compare the rider with the guys on the same equipment, that will tell you their worth. Look at Sam Lowes. Mediocre rider? Not if you compare him to everyone else on a Speed Up.

Once upon a time, you entered GPs on a Norton Manx knowing you would never win a race against the MV Agustas. You tried to beat everyone else on a Norton Manx, in the hope that the Count would realize you were fucking fast, and give you an MV to play with.
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October 4th, 2015, 05:59 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
In all my dealings with Nicky Hayden in the past couple of years, he has always given the impression of wanting to win again. I think he will take the bike that gives him the best chance of success.
Any person for whom this is NOT the primary motivation for being there, is a rider first and foremost and not a racer.

ALL racers want competitive machinery that allows them to show their true abilities and worth.

Anything else, is a cop out

Last edited by Gaz; October 4th, 2015 at 06:02 PM.
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October 4th, 2015, 06:12 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kropotkin View Post
Tech 3 knew. They knew what he was on, and what he was getting out of it. Compare the rider with the guys on the same equipment, that will tell you their worth. Look at Sam Lowes. Mediocre rider? Not if you compare him to everyone else on a Speed Up.

Once upon a time, you entered GPs on a Norton Manx knowing you would never win a race against the MV Agustas. You tried to beat everyone else on a Norton Manx, in the hope that the Count would realize you were fucking fast, and give you an MV to play with.
Yes, and thats why I imagine they were willing to sign him to the main category while many (me included) scoffed. Thing is the general perception is more often damaged for the rider when they take sub equipment.

Speaking of which, wrong thread but is van der Mark on anybody's radar? I ask because I also sense that youth is highly coveted even over older guys who are doing the business.
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October 4th, 2015, 06:16 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
Any person for whom this is NOT the primary motivation for being there, is a rider first and foremost and not a racer.
Easy for us to say. But I do believe some are journeyman riders who understand the realities and are there to be part of the show. Not everyone at the circus is destined to be the main attraction. But that doesn't mean they need to starve in the process.
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October 4th, 2015, 06:37 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Easy for us to say. But I do believe some are journeyman riders who understand the realities and are there to be part of the show. Not everyone at the circus is destined to be the main attraction. But that doesn't mean they need to starve in the process.
Totally agree Jums but no doubt that they also want to be competitive and on machinery that allows them to be competitive.

The facts that they are not on that competitive machinery does not make them a 'cop out' if the attitude or will is that they want to be competitive.

Riders who have the primary or only motivation of earning the dollar are those that are copping out (IMO)
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October 6th, 2015, 08:28 AM   #88
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Honda supposedly have new CBR in the works, or is this a ploy to get Hayden signed?

Nicky Hayden to WSBK...Aprilia or Honda? | Sport Rider
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October 6th, 2015, 08:33 AM   #89
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Hayden to WSBK (Again)?

Would be hard to not go to Honda if they are going to invest in a new bike..

Last edited by WVMotoGP99; October 6th, 2015 at 09:23 AM.
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October 6th, 2015, 08:36 AM   #90
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I Ride: the inevitable waves of change
Don't they have a new blade announced since god knows how many years?
They lured my boy into re-signing year after year,surely there's some polished truths when offering contracts. Not that Honda give a crap about sbk anyways
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