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May 14th, 2015, 07:20 AM   #31
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Newey is an aerodynamicist - he doesn't design reliable or unreliable cars unless his aero design is so poor that bits of the aero package fail, which is not something I particularly recall happening.

You might find this Newey piece interesting if you haven't seen it before Adrian Newey: the magnificent man and his flying machines - Telegraph

Regarding competition, Hill, Villeneuve & Hakkinen (*2) were Newey designed cars, but Alonso also beat him twice to the WC in 05 & 06.
Actually what Newey did factored greatly into reliability or lack thereof with his cars. His Williams success was down to Patrick Head being there to keep him in check. Car design has been increasingly dictated by aerodynamic packaging. The desire to go slim has a huge impact on how well the car handles cooling.

Consider this, Newey's most successful period on his own without Patrick Head was the 2009-2013 period when regulations were stable. There's a huge reason for this. Back during the Lleyton House days, Newey's cars ran their best as Paul Ricard because the surface there was immaculate in those days, and as such, it didn't upset the balance of the cars the way every other circuit did.

2005 was not really a year I count for Schumacher losing because of how badly Bridgestone fucked up their tire design compared to the Michelins.

Anyway, this is too far off the beaten path now.
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May 14th, 2015, 07:46 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
Actually what Newey did factored greatly into reliability or lack thereof with his cars. His Williams success was down to Patrick Head being there to keep him in check. Car design has been increasingly dictated by aerodynamic packaging. The desire to go slim has a huge impact on how well the car handles cooling.

Consider this, Newey's most successful period on his own without Patrick Head was the 2009-2013 period when regulations were stable. There's a huge reason for this. Back during the Lleyton House days, Newey's cars ran their best as Paul Ricard because the surface there was immaculate in those days, and as such, it didn't upset the balance of the cars the way every other circuit did.

2005 was not really a year I count for Schumacher losing because of how badly Bridgestone fucked up their tire design compared to the Michelins.

Anyway, this is too far off the beaten path now.

You make some very good points there Newey's cars were often fast but fragile due to the reasons you pointed out.
1999, 2000, and 2005 McLarens spring to mind as quickest cars on the grid but in only one of those years did they take the WDC and no WCC. 2005 especially was a beast but it just broke down all the time, reckon Kimi must have taken 4 engine penalty's that season and some for JPM also.

Good to see someone else with a bit of F1 knowledge on here
Was watching 1989 French GP the other day, not such a good one for leyton house lol, but i think Big Mo set fastest lap
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May 14th, 2015, 10:14 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamaka46 View Post
Newey is an aerodynamicist - he doesn't design reliable or unreliable cars unless his aero design is so poor that bits of the aero package fail, which is not something I particularly recall happening.

You might find this Newey piece interesting if you haven't seen it before Adrian Newey: the magnificent man and his flying machines - Telegraph

Regarding competition, Hill, Villeneuve & Hakkinen (*2) were Newey designed cars, but Alonso also beat him twice to the WC in 05 & 06.
Thank you for the article. Great read.
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May 14th, 2015, 04:38 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by JPSLotus View Post
Actually what Newey did factored greatly into reliability or lack thereof with his cars. His Williams success was down to Patrick Head being there to keep him in check. Car design has been increasingly dictated by aerodynamic packaging. The desire to go slim has a huge impact on how well the car handles cooling.

Consider this, Newey's most successful period on his own without Patrick Head was the 2009-2013 period when regulations were stable. There's a huge reason for this. Back during the Lleyton House days, Newey's cars ran their best as Paul Ricard because the surface there was immaculate in those days, and as such, it didn't upset the balance of the cars the way every other circuit did.

2005 was not really a year I count for Schumacher losing because of how badly Bridgestone fucked up their tire design compared to the Michelins.

Anyway, this is too far off the beaten path now.
No need to keep generic threads like this on track so long as other peeps are interested in the discussion

IMHO Newey is an aerodynamicist and any team without overall System designers ( / architects, call 'em what you will) will end up with the most capable designer driving the car design. This is not the fault of the aerodynamicist, nor the engine designer should it turnout that he is the stronger, rather a failure of the team to have someone who can see the bigger picture and balance aero design with good cooling, exhaust routing etc, etc,

It happens in commercial auto manufacturers (I currently contract with JLR as a Systems Engineer in Powertrain) as well as F1 teams, where the designers of each sub-system are quite likely geniuses, and their particular bit may be stunning. However, melding them into an overall winning (or even working ) vehicle is not possible as no-one considered the interfaces between sub-systems (the bigger picture) before the individual sub-systems were fixed in stone.

TLDR; version: Newey can't be blamed for not being a Systems Engineer, but history shows that in conjunction with a good one, his aero designs have been little short of brilliant.

Last edited by yamaka46; May 14th, 2015 at 04:41 PM.
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May 15th, 2015, 12:02 AM   #35
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It happens in commercial auto manufacturers (I currently contract with JLR as a Systems Engineer in Powertrain):
I'm with Ford
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May 15th, 2015, 11:01 AM   #36
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I'm with Ford
Dunton?
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May 17th, 2015, 11:48 PM   #37
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PM Sent.
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