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July 28th, 2014, 10:54 AM   #1
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The future of MotoGP?

Dennis Noyes wrote two good articles this summer about the performance of MotoGP bikes and the challenges ahead of the sport.

Brembo Engineer Lorenzo Bortolozzo & Andrea Dovizioso- MotoGP Brake Issues

Faster And Faster, Part 2- MotoGP Racing Speeds Raise Safety Concerns

Since MotoGP bikes weigh 160kg and reach 225mph, MotoGP appears to be reaching its performance threshold for horsepower, weight, and lap times (possibly).

Where does the sport go from here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sia_sk_K2q8

Last edited by mylexicon; July 28th, 2014 at 01:57 PM.
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July 28th, 2014, 06:33 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mylexicon View Post
Dennis Noyes wrote two good articles this summer about the performance of MotoGP bikes and the challenges ahead of the sport.

Brembo Engineer Lorenzo Bortolozzo & Andrea Dovizioso- MotoGP Brake Issues

Faster And Faster, Part 2- MotoGP Racing Speeds Raise Safety Concerns

Since MotoGP bikes weigh 160kg and reach 225mph, MotoGP appears to be reaching its performance threshold for horsepower, weight, and lap times (possibly).

Where does the sport go from here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sia_sk_K2q8
All they have to do is look at the 10's of thousands of empty seats at Indy, Talladega and Daytona to see if it matters to the fans how fast they go. We have had this debate numerous times, and if they slow the bikes down like car racing has slowed the cars down, many fans will not see the reason to go watch what they have seen ten years ago, A rider or driver who calls for slower speeds is scared and needs to be replaced by a younger hungrier talent. Riding on the edge of disaster is the show, its what makes us admire what they do.They may be able to get away with keeping it where it is, but cutting speeds 15-20 mph would be catastrophic to the sport.

Last edited by povol; July 28th, 2014 at 06:41 PM.
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July 29th, 2014, 04:54 AM   #3
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I don't know, Pov. The 800s were slower in a straight line than the 990s, but you're still here.
Mick D likes this.
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July 29th, 2014, 05:52 AM   #4
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I don't know, Pov. The 800s were slower in a straight line than the 990s, but you're still here.
The top speed record was held by an 800cc bike until it was broken this year. This whole top speed argument is bullshit, how often do we see crashes on straights, rarely. If the speeds scare a rider, he has 2 options, brake earlier, or get the fuck out of the series.
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July 29th, 2014, 11:03 AM   #5
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The top speed record was held by an 800cc bike until it was broken this year. This whole top speed argument is bullshit, how often do we see crashes on straights, rarely. If the speeds scare a rider, he has 2 options, brake earlier, or get the fuck out of the series.
We got the back story on Dani's Mugello record. The numbers were debunked by people in the paddock, and the top speed figures were supposedly attributable to some over-zealous Italians who wanted to hype the GP.

Similarly, Noyes points out that the official data isn't reliable, since the braking zones are set to be compatible with all 3 classes. The current top speeds are significantly understated in many instances, according to Brembo.
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July 29th, 2014, 11:12 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by mylexicon View Post
We got the back story on Dani's Mugello record. The numbers were debunked by people in the paddock, and the top speed figures were supposedly attributable to some over-zealous Italians who wanted to hype the GP.

Similarly, Noyes points out that the official data isn't reliable, since the braking zones are set to be compatible with all 3 classes. The current top speeds are significantly understated in many instances, according to Brembo.
The numbers were scrutinized, then approved, just like any official record and the braking points were the same then as they are now. I read the articles a while back and i personally think Dorna is missing out on an excellent marketing tool by understating the speeds attained, it makes no sense for them to fudge numbers to the low side.
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July 31st, 2014, 11:26 AM   #7
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The MotoGP circus has become Big Entertainment with obligatory Big Marketing. As with any entertainment, the success of the whole thing depends on the quality of the show. Outright speed is cool and all, but it's rather one-dimensional and I don't think it's really necessary for a good show. I routinely find Moto3 and Moto2 races more entertaining than MotoGP. They invented drag racing for folks that care about nothing but speed.

With that said, some of the coolest races I have ever been to were the Formula USA events organized by Doug Gonda back in the '90's. They (at least at the beginning) were true "run whatcha brung" races. Kenny Roberts would show up with a couple of YZR500s, methanol burning GSXRs, turbocharged stuff, you name it. You couldn't wait to see what was going to happen! The lawyers probably killed that off.

Anyway, even though the manufacturers are big stakeholders in GP racing, I think it's time for their influence on rules making to be greatly reduced. Their motivations are to use racing as a development lab and to be completely dominant. That second part runs counter to the greater necessity of putting on a good show.

The coming of the spec ECU in MotoGP is probably a step in the right direction. In a perfect world, that ECU would not be capable of traction control, wheelie control, gps-based mapping, etc. The next step might be adoption of a spec engine as in Moto2. Keep the power in proportion to tire and brake technology and the safety issues are managed. If the OEMs take their toys and go home I think DORNA has the resources to commission a respectable MotoGP engine from the industry outside of the usual suspects (the KR/Proton effort was pretty impressive).

As in the smaller classes, what will make MotoGP racing consistently great is large grids on relatively equal machinery where there's 15 guys that could win on any day. Tire-smoking slides giant power wheelies will be icing on the cake.

Cheers!
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July 31st, 2014, 11:53 AM   #8
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[QUOTE=kilowatt;372351]
The next step might be adoption of a spec engine as in Moto2.

Blasphemy, i was only slightly disagreeing with much of what you said, this is the worst idea ever for a prototype racing series








If the OEMs take their toys and go home I think DORNA has the resources to commission a respectable MotoGP engine from the industry outside of the usual suspects (the KR/Proton effort was pretty impressive).


Without the OEM's Moto GP dies a quick death

As in the smaller classes, what will make MotoGP racing consistently great is large grids on relatively equal machinery where there's 15 guys that could win on any day.

There has never been a prototype series of any kind where there were 15 guys capable of winning races. Personally, i cant think of any racing series on the planet except for Nascar where there are 15 legitimate possible winners on a given Sunday.
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July 31st, 2014, 12:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilowatt View Post
The MotoGP circus has become Big Entertainment with obligatory Big Marketing. As with any entertainment, the success of the whole thing depends on the quality of the show. Outright speed is cool and all, but it's rather one-dimensional and I don't think it's really necessary for a good show. I routinely find Moto3 and Moto2 races more entertaining than MotoGP. They invented drag racing for folks that care about nothing but speed.

With that said, some of the coolest races I have ever been to were the Formula USA events organized by Doug Gonda back in the '90's. They (at least at the beginning) were true "run whatcha brung" races. Kenny Roberts would show up with a couple of YZR500s, methanol burning GSXRs, turbocharged stuff, you name it. You couldn't wait to see what was going to happen! The lawyers probably killed that off.

Anyway, even though the manufacturers are big stakeholders in GP racing, I think it's time for their influence on rules making to be greatly reduced. Their motivations are to use racing as a development lab and to be completely dominant. That second part runs counter to the greater necessity of putting on a good show.

The coming of the spec ECU in MotoGP is probably a step in the right direction. In a perfect world, that ECU would not be capable of traction control, wheelie control, gps-based mapping, etc. The next step might be adoption of a spec engine as in Moto2. Keep the power in proportion to tire and brake technology and the safety issues are managed. If the OEMs take their toys and go home I think DORNA has the resources to commission a respectable MotoGP engine from the industry outside of the usual suspects (the KR/Proton effort was pretty impressive).

As in the smaller classes, what will make MotoGP racing consistently great is large grids on relatively equal machinery where there's 15 guys that could win on any day. Tire-smoking slides giant power wheelies will be icing on the cake.

Cheers!
Moto2 and Moto3 are fun to watch, but prototyping is what keeps people coming back through the decades.
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July 31st, 2014, 12:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post

Blasphemy, i was only slightly disagreeing with much of what you said, this is the worst idea ever for a prototype racing series
The bikes would be prototypes at least to the same degree as the Moto2 machines. I think the purity of the mechanical DNA should be secondary to quality, competitive racing.

I believe Dorna agrees with this (they are TV people after all), but is currently too afraid of losing the OEMs.
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