World Superbike champions vs MotoGP champions?

My friend and I were having a conversation which got me to thinking... I have never seen anyone come from World Superbike to MotoGP and lead in the point standings. Is the difference between the World Superbike champion and the MotoGP champion that much different?

duc said:

My friend and I were having a conversation which got me to thinking... I have never seen anyone come from World Superbike to MotoGP and lead in the point standings. Is the difference between the World Superbike champion and the MotoGP champion that much different?

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Its pretty well documented how WSBK Champions fail miserably at Moto GP. The list is long and distinguished. So to answer your question, yes, they are that much different

povol said:

Its pretty well documented how WSBK Champions fail miserably at Moto GP. The list is long and distinguished. So to answer your question, yes, they are that much different

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Conversely, there hasnt been a MotoGP champion that has gone over to WSBK and won that title either.....Biaggi is as close as you can get to winning both so far...
The only Ex-champ left that could try to do it will be Hayden....since JLo, Rossi and Casey are not likely to ever jump or be pushed to WSBK.

MigsAngel said:

Conversely, there hasnt been a MotoGP champion that has gone over to WSBK and won that title either.....Biaggi is as close as you can get to winning both so far...
The only Ex-champ left that could try to do it will be Hayden....since JLo, Rossi and Casey are not likely to ever jump or be pushed to WSBK.

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As far as i know, none have tried in the history of WSBK. Maybe thats why Nicky keeps fighting it, doesnt want to be the first Moto GP champion to end up in a lesser series. I wish he would though, the dude was magic on a Superbike. I think he would go in that series and do similar to what Spies did.

povol said:

As far as i know, none have tried in the history of WSBK. Maybe thats why Nicky keeps fighting it, doesnt want to be the first Moto GP champion to end up in a lesser series. I wish he would though, the dude was magic on a Superbike. I think he would go in that series and do similar to what Spies did.

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None have tried Povol.....Nicky may see it as a lesser series but it might also have to do with him not wanting to embarrass himself. It has been a fair few years since he has ridden a superbike in a race against not to mention against the like of riders in the current WSBK field....I'd like to see him try in 2016, if for no other reason than be proven wrong....

The one and only Doohan moved from superbikes with fzr to 500.

SBK Sugo 1988 Race 2 - YouTube


250cc champion john kocinski went to superbikes at 1996 and won the champioship at 1997.
Roche (not champion) went from 500 to superbikes at 1989 and 1990 won the title,2nd at 91', 2nd at 92'.

I dont know more.:unsure:

MigsAngel said:

None have tried Povol.....Nicky may see it as a lesser series but it might also have to do with him not wanting to embarrass himself. It has been a fair few years since he has ridden a superbike in a race against not to mention against the like of riders in the current WSBK field....I'd like to see him try in 2016, if for no other reason than be proven wrong....

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I personally think the WSBK lineup would play into his favor, Its as weak as i can remember, and is seriously lacking star power at the moment.

povol said:

I personally think the WSBK lineup would play into his favor, Its as weak as i can remember, and is seriously lacking star power at the moment.

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I was thinking the same thing. WSBK is really weak at the moment. ZERO stars. When that total ass clown Johnny Rae can double, there's no talent in the field or there's something really wrong with the way some have set up their machines. I think it's a combination of both.

I still watch every SBK race but it's a bunch of nobodies. I think most of the GP guys on reasonable machinery would do quite well. That's probably one of the reasons none are interested. There's no clout in the move.

Zero stars does not equate to a lessened or weaker field of riders.....would we rather see a GP style rider dominate WSBK....i for one would rather see close racing like we have mostly seen so far.....Rea dominating Imola last week was boring, but the rest of the field was good racing....
Now, can someone that has been riding in MotoGP for the last 11 years suddenly jump into WSBK and dominate it on almost any bike....i dont think so at all....
I am sure American Honda would love to see him in WSBK in 2016 (and i hope they push him to go there)...and then we will see if he can pull a Spies....or if he fails...

What we have in WSBK at the moment is a bunch of good , not great, but good riders who have very little international appeal. There is no Corser, Haga, Spies,Edwards, Fogarty, etc: Any sport needs its Superstar, its benchmark, and WSBK simply doesnt have it. They must start competing with Moto2 to land future stars of the sport, and that means start paying the ....... riders. When you are a secondary racing series you are judged by the strength of your talent that moves to the pinnacle of that sport, and WSS and WSBK are grossly lacking in future talent that will end up in GP. WSBK and BSB have become a joined at the hip revolving door that recycles riders from international to national series, back and forth back and forth because its comfortable. Well guess what, WSBK is getting older by the second, and BSB will soon have to start supplying its riders with Depends. Go look at the rider line up for BSB,its ridiculous. You have riders in their late 30's through 40's running at or near the front. I dont have anything against old riders, i are one, but ......., quit telling me how ....... great a certain national series is when you have a 38 year old running away with the proceedings. My point is, Nicky is not old for WSBK, and the current talent has no one even close to being on the GP radar. I didnt say Nicky could win on any bike, but i do believe he would on the top Aprilia , Kawi , Honda , Ducati, or Suzuki

I haven't watch world superbike in years because it is a bunch of old men. AMA superbike has been exactly the same for the last 10 years. These series don't even try to attempt to find young new talent. Wsbk and AMA Suffer from the Bostrom syndrome. They only allow has beens that never really went anywhere to stick around for years and collect paychecks.


Povol you mentioned before that you're excited to see the Daytona 200 go back to superbikes. What exactly is there to be excited about? I get that you want to see the bigger bikes but have you seen who's riding them? That race will be Josh Hayes against Cameron ....ier and 30 privateers. At least with the 600's you're seeing 8 guys that have a chance of competing

For years I wondered why Nicky still stays in GP. This off-season I followed him on social media. He spends most of his time on the West Coast riding either a mountain bike a road bike a go cart or his dirt bike every single day. If you could dream up the ideal life you couldn't get any better than what he has. He plays every day, shows up to all the big events like Supercross and hangs out with the stars from the Motoworld plus hes banging a wannabe 21 yr old Kim Kardashian.
With the money he's making and the lifestyle he lives, being on a .... bike isn't so bad. That's the problem when these guys get paid, they get comfortable and lose their hunger.

I wish that Nicky, Dovi and Crutchlow would leave GP and go to WSBK. All three of them deserve better and if they did go it would light up that series. Nobody Except Povol wants to watch the Honda farce of GP but right now there are no viable alternatives

That is a warped sense of perception when guys in their late 20's to early 30's as old (yes, I know we are talking about motorcycle racing). The rider talent pipeline from BSB/BSS/MotoGP has-beens to WSBK leaves something to be desired, but that doesn't mean they can't produce great racing. Pretty frequently I find WSBK better to watch because in MotoGP you are usually only going to have 4 bikes capable of winning the race.

eltoro said:

That is a warped sense of perception when guys in their late 20's to early 30's as old (yes, I know we are talking about motorcycle racing). The rider talent pipeline from BSB/BSS/MotoGP has-beens to WSBK leaves something to be desired, but that doesn't mean they can't produce great racing. Pretty frequently I find WSBK better to watch because in MotoGP you are usually only going to have 4 bikes capable of winning the race.

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You could put everyone in my subdivision on matching lawnmowers and have great racing. Low tech racing,even if its close, with washed up riders who are going nowhere doesnt guarantee success. I personally think WSBK will be on life support once they switch over to SuperStock, especially if they dont start cultivating and moving young talent up ranks.

Guarantee success of what? Now that Dorna owns the commercial rights to both series, I don't think it surprises anyone that WSBK is playing second fiddle to MotoGP. No sense of trying to make the status of both series 'equal' if Dorna wants to promote MotoGP as the premiere category of motorcycle road racing. It's pretty much a 'minor' feeder series to MotoGP. The series organizers haven't really done much to counter the 'lower quality/retiree' series perception of WSBK and that definitely leads young riders to believe that you only go if you have no other options in the prototype pipeline.

Didn't WSBK also create a young rider feeder series? Haven't heard much from it.

eltoro said:

Guarantee success of what? Now that Dorna owns the commercial rights to both series, I don't think it surprises anyone that WSBK is playing second fiddle to MotoGP. No sense of trying to make the status of both series 'equal' if Dorna wants to promote MotoGP as the premiere category of motorcycle road racing. It's pretty much a 'minor' feeder series to MotoGP. The series organizers haven't really done much to counter the 'lower quality/retiree' series perception of WSBK and that definitely leads young riders to believe that you only go if you have no other options in the prototype pipeline.

Didn't WSBK also create a young rider feeder series? Haven't heard much from it.

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Existence.

I don't understand where your doom and gloom view is coming from. WSBK is a viable option for manufacturers/teams that don't want in on the high costs it takes to develop a bike/run a competitive team in MotoGP. I don't see any indications that the series will disappear. The bikes raced in WSBK are much closer to what consumers get, from a marketing standpoint it makes sense for manufacturers to promote/market using the WSBK platform.

eltoro said:

I don't understand where your doom and gloom view is coming from. WSBK is a viable option for manufacturers/teams that don't want in on the high costs it takes to develop a bike/run a competitive team in MotoGP. I don't see any indications that the series will disappear. The bikes raced in WSBK are much closer to what consumers get, from a marketing standpoint it makes sense for manufacturers to promote/market using the WSBK platform.

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Has nothing to do with what the teams want, its what the fan wants that counts, and most fans lose interest in series that reverse course on high performance. I have already lost interest in it just knowing where its going. I watched the first round at PI and have not seen a race since. From the looks of the WSBK discussion board , im not the only one.

mario27 said:

The one and only Doohan moved from superbikes with fzr to 500.

SBK Sugo 1988 Race 2 - YouTube


250cc champion john kocinski went to superbikes at 1996 and won the champioship at 1997.
Roche (not champion) went from 500 to superbikes at 1989 and 1990 won the title,2nd at 91', 2nd at 92'.

I dont know more.:unsure:

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Mario,

Doohan did not compete in a full season of WSBK but did compete in some races/rounds before he was signed by HRC (basically on the strength of the Oran Park WSBK round where he lapped Merkel I think it was who was champion at the time).

He is not alone in having a superbike background and most riders of his era started on the superbikes in the home countries as both Oz and the USA were four stroke based series (there were some two strokes but not gp bikes)

My genuine belief is that the Grands Prix and now MotoGP will improve a rider multiple times over, and so why would they want to drop back to a series where they, from experience will know that their skills will lessen?

As for Haystacks, I hope he wanders off quietly to retirement of his own means and is not pushed by lack of opportunity

Yeap but he was racing at Australia with rd 350 and 500. Also with tzr250 after that years.
And many others....

I mean he did not start from 80cc and 125cc when he was younger as everybody used to did at 500cc.

He started with that bikes then and he went straight to 500cc.
He learned a different riding style with these bikes and superbikes (australia and wsbk).
He is one of the few 500 or motogp world champions to have won a superbike world chapionship race.

And doohan first won race at australian superbikes and world superbikes and then became motogp world champion.

Its not easy to do that.

mario27 said:

Yeap but he was racing at Australia with rd 350 and 500. Also with tzr250 after that years.
And many others....

I mean he did not start from 80cc and 125cc when he was younger as everybody used to did at 500cc.

He started with that bikes then and he went straight to 500cc.
He learned a different riding style with these bikes and superbikes (australia and wsbk).
He is one of the few 500 or motogp world champions to have won a superbike world chapionship race.

And doohan first won race at australian superbikes and world superbikes and then became motogp world champion.

Its not easy to do that.

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But Rainey also came through the 250cc two stroke (GP) and the US Superbikes, as did Lawson, Spencer, Schwantz - they all competed on SUperbikes of one nature and ended at World 500cc championship level (Spencer of course doing the double in the same year - remarkable)

I cannot recall to much of Doohan's RZ350 days but do recall the Team Camo RZ500, but that is a massively different bike to the GP bikes of the era, even though they were sold as GP Replica. Yes he won the Oz Round of the WSBK (WSB as it was then) round at Oran Park and also won the then Australian GP around Mt Panorama (before it became a world championship round).

The fact he won around the mountain is an achievement in itself (anyone who has driven or ridden the mountain at road speeds will understand)

BTW, Doohan is the rider I personally rate as the best I have seen, followed by Rainey so I am biased