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September 17th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #61
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Keshav, on 17 Sept 2013 - 06:14, said:

It's been boring since Spies left. I had to drag myself to the screen to watch it.
There have been several battles for race wins this year in Wsbk. Not sure how you can call it boring, but ok. Anyway, regarding the Wsbk relevance, now that news has broke regarding Dorna's CEV Repsol series becoming part of the FIM, you can kiss Wsbk goodbye (which some of us predicted the moment we learned Wsbk had come under Dorna control). Dorna continues to monopolize the sport and make it its own personal WWE, the machinates are clear yet most don't detect them. Not hard really, as most "motoracing fans" already swallow the bullshit whole. Who will win the next 5 races in GP, you have 4 reasonable choices, 2 of which have been easily sussed out, leaving you with a 50/50 chance of picking the winner. That is the world of motoracing brought to us by Dorna.
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September 17th, 2013, 03:02 PM   #62
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Remember when [Bayliss] rocked up for a quick go on the [Ducati GP]. He finished on the [top step of the] podium in front of [all the best riders in the world]. [This proves] the series has been second rate since the end of the [most competitive] era.Ur attempt at insight above, similar to u saying Hayden is following around looking for tows as Barbers, I think is devoid of broader analysis.

Good point
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September 17th, 2013, 06:15 PM   #63
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There have been several battles for race wins this year in Wsbk. Not sure how you can call it boring, but ok. Anyway, regarding the Wsbk relevance, now that news has broke regarding Dorna's CEV Repsol series becoming part of the FIM, you can kiss Wsbk goodbye (which some of us predicted the moment we learned Wsbk had come under Dorna control). Dorna continues to monopolize the sport and make it its own personal WWE, the machinates are clear yet most don't detect them. Not hard really, as most "motoracing fans" already swallow the bullshit whole. Who will win the next 5 races in GP, you have 4 reasonable choices, 2 of which have been easily sussed out, leaving you with a 50/50 chance of picking the winner. That is the world of motoracing brought to us by Dorna.

Just personal differences as regards what makes the racing interesting. None of the personalities in WSBK have been particularly interesting, and by personality I mean riding style, dominance of the series etc. It just hasn't grabbed me. There was something really special happening when Bayliss, Haga or Spies were racing there was a certain magic; but it just ain't been there for me.
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September 17th, 2013, 06:53 PM   #64
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3614241379432275

Remember when [Bayliss] rocked up for a quick go on the [Ducati GP]. He finished on the [top step of the] podium in front of [all the best riders in the world]. [This proves] the series has been second rate since the end of the [most competitive] era.


Ur attempt at insight above, similar to u saying Hayden is following around looking for tows as Barbers, I think is devoid of broader analysis.

Bayliss's one-off winning ride, which few would have enjoyed more than I did, imo is evidence in favour of several of your long-term contentions but not for the top WSBK riders being as good as the top motogp riders, at least in recent times, although the reverse probably also applies and not much in the way of conclusions should be drawn from Simoncelli's one-off WSBK ride either.





Bayliss did further illustrate that the 990 formula gave many more riders a winning chance especially in 2006 in comparison to susbsequent formulae, and I entirely agree in particular about the current situation where with the Ducati a near CRT bike only the 2 factory Honda and Yamaha bikes can win, and even worse as the season has developed one rider from each team does not now appear all that likely to beat his team-mate for whatever reason.





Bayliss had 3 other full motogp seasons though, 2 on factory Ducatis and one on a reasonably backed privateer 990 Honda with less than stellar results, and was outridden by Capirossi in the 2 Ducati seasons. I don't know what his tyre situation with Pons Honda was admittedly. In the race he won Rossi crashed out early, Nicky then didn't need to win the race and Capirossi perhaps wouldn't have impressed Ducati much if he had taken risks and changed Ducati's result from a comfortable 1st and 2nd to nothing. On the other hand Troy was notably unimpressed with the Ducati GP operation and insisted on using his WSBK crew, so his previous results for Ducati may have been significantly down to Ducati's incompetence, which would not be inconsistent with subsequent events.





I keep going back to that Suzuka endurance race, where Rossi was comfortably quicker than Edwards on what was rather definitely as opposed to the usual situation exactly the same bike, in Colin's prime as a WSBK rider, and Colin was indisputably a great WSBK rider, including beating Bayliss for WSBK championships.
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September 17th, 2013, 08:19 PM   #65
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3614241379432275

Remember when [Bayliss] rocked up for a quick go on the [Ducati GP]. He finished on the [top step of the] podium in front of [all the best riders in the world]. [This proves] the series has been second rate since the end of the [most competitive] era.


Ur attempt at insight above, similar to u saying Hayden is following around looking for tows as Barbers, I think is devoid of broader analysis.




Here's a broader analysis.





Simoncelli was only a 250cc rider at the time, with no four stroke experience. He walked into WSBK and finished on the podium.





Bayliss didn't just rock up for a quick go on the Ducati, he was a long term MotoGP rider and had lots of experience on the 990 bikes, including podiums. The Ducati was also a genuine championship contender that year.He was also a multiple WSBK Champion.





Do you deny Hayden is following Dovi for a tow at every race? Cause it really looks like it on TV.
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September 17th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #66
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Here's a broader analysis.





Simoncelli was only a 250cc rider at the time, with no four stroke experience. He walked into WSBK and finished on the podium.





Bayliss didn't just rock up for a quick go on the Ducati, he was a long term MotoGP rider and had lots of experience on the 990 bikes, including podiums. The Ducati was also a genuine championship contender that year.He was also a multiple WSBK Champion.





Do you deny Hayden is following Dovi for a tow at every race? Cause it really looks like it on TV.

I had forgotten Simoncelli was a 250 rider at the time. He was disadvantaged by his size as a gp racer, less of a disadvantage on a WSBK, and the Aprilia was becoming a good bike. Perhaps his WSBK ride gave some indication that he would have been even better in GP racing if the bikes weren't built for midgets.
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September 18th, 2013, 11:09 AM   #67
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Bayliss's one-off winning ride, which few would have enjoyed more than I did, imo is evidence in favour of several of your long-term contentions but not for the top WSBK riders being as good as the top motogp riders, at least in recent times, although the reverse probably also applies and not much in the way of conclusions should be drawn from Simoncelli's one-off WSBK ride either.



My point was made to contrast the event Sloth cited, that was pointing to a singular event and then making some general conclusion without a broader analysis; to rebut I did the same to show how shallow and devoid was his supposition. Beyond the top GP riders, say maybe Marquez and Lorenzo ‘at the moment’, I would still contend top Wsbk riders could hold their own among the bulk of GP riders (where we love to repeat the myth that only in GP do the 'top riders in the world" make their home. Kinda of reminds me of when I watch the Daytona race and the commentators call the event "the world center of racing" (I suppose at one time it was). My "long term contentions" assert that there is evidence to indicate GP lower categories are favored for top billeting in the premier class leading many to conclude these are then the ‘absolute best’, however, may I point to Crutchlow--a non-wsbk champ but GP multiple pole setter and podium finisher to make my point?




Sloth_27
Quote:
3614451379477960

Here's a broader analysis.



Simoncelli was only a 250cc rider at the time, with no four stroke experience. He walked into WSBK and finished on the podium.



Bayliss didn't just rock up for a quick go on the Ducati, he was a long term MotoGP rider and had lots of experience on the 990 bikes, including podiums. The Ducati was also a genuine championship contender that year.He was also a multiple WSBK Champion.



Do you deny Hayden is following Dovi for a tow at every race? Cause it really looks like it on TV.





According to the point you were attempting to make, a top GP rider would mop up the Wsbk regulars. Simonchelli wasn't just some run of the mill 250 rider, he was billed as the next great thing in MotoGP, so his talent was deemed to be worthy of top accolades among the "worlds best riders". That he performed among the top Wsbk riders isn’t that much of a stretch to support my contention that ‘some’ are interchangeable on competitive machines, as Mike pointed out the Aprillia was a top machine. His Wsbk participation was impressive no doubt, keeping in mind he crashed out of race one, nonetheless a podium in the second race on a top competitive machine is worthy of mention. This is why your extrapolated point was easily rebuffed by a similar singular event occurrence when Bayliss mopped up “the world’s best” GP riders on a one-off wildcard. We can debate the weight you or I want to assign to particular details like acute experience in that year's machine, the step-up in classes, 250GP machines vs Wsbk, or Wsbk machines vs works GP990s, Wsbk tires vs 250GP tires vs MotoGP tires, etc., (side note, we can even debate the ‘step-up’ from Moto2 to MotoGP) however, either event we both point to does lend credence to my contention that top riders are top riders and that parity coupled with opportunity accounts for quite the difference.





As to your point about Hayden ‘following around’ getting a “tow” from Dovi ala Barbera, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were just trolling, but if in fact this is your viewpoint, then honestly I'm a bit miffed by your perceptions regarding the Ducati riders. Perhaps you should take a look at the last four rounds (I would say ‘review’, but I’m not certain you noticed the first time); at Laguna and Indy Nicky’s passes were so “aggressive” as to be reprimanded by Ducati. Both riders actually made contact in two of these races, in the last two, Silverstone and Misano, both riders exchanged positions leading eachother for a few laps, at Silverstone this resulted in a crash for Dovi. Dovi was interviewed before Misano’s race, and he stated that him and Nicky are basically putting in matching lap times, this is why, he said, “we are always together on the track”. He says it takes an extraordinary risky move to get ahead of eachother because the bike is so unstable and both riders lose time on the turns. Both riders have suffered crashes in races pushing their bikes.
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September 18th, 2013, 12:22 PM   #68
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3614451379477960

Here's a broader analysis.





Simoncelli was only a 250cc rider at the time, with no four stroke experience. He walked into WSBK and finished on the podium.





Bayliss didn't just rock up for a quick go on the Ducati, he was a long term MotoGP rider and had lots of experience on the 990 bikes, including podiums. The Ducati was also a genuine championship contender that year.He was also a multiple WSBK Champion.





Do you deny Hayden is following Dovi for a tow at every race? Cause it really looks like it on TV.




Yeah you can really tell Hayden is being towed along by Dovi by the 1/8th of a second they show the Ducati's on TV...
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September 18th, 2013, 03:58 PM   #69
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Yeah you can really tell Hayden is being towed along by Dovi by the 1/8th of a second they show the Ducati's on TV...




Man change the fcuking record!


Since the MM was right RW was wrong on the racing line on a live track when the track was dead quote,


You have moved onto Nicky bashin!


FFS are you really that bored!?


I am honestly asking the question!


BTW was MM in the wrong at PI 2011?


Answer that!
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September 19th, 2013, 02:24 AM   #70
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Honestly I'm not sure. I don't see a video on motogp.com that shows one way or another but again, my recollection is that Marquez was on a fast lap and had not taken the checkered flag. Conveniently motogp.com no longer has the video up.





I don't like Nicky Hayden because I feel he won a championship by luck and he continues to get factory rides with factory paychecks. That Ducati was a winning bike before he started to ride it and ever since he joined the factory the team has gone backwards. And you guys all shit all over Pedrosa when he's runner up in the championship several times and has tons of wins, poles, podiums, etc. Something that Nicky Hayden definitely does not have. Plus add in all the Spanish riders get preferential treatment and better engines/tires/bikes conspiracies...Sometimes I forget if I am on a motorcycle racing forum or on some 9/11 conspiracy website. I sometimes have to check my browser to make sure I'm not on www.infowars.com





Besides my post was hardly Nicky Hayden bashing at all. My point was that they showed the Ducati's on TV for all of like 5 seconds. 99% of the show was the 2 orange bikes and the 2 blue bikes, aka the only bikes capable of winning (ignoring Bradl's full factory Honda and Crutchlow's just as good as the factory bikes but with an inconsistent rider who has a fear of passing)





show me the video and prove me wrong. I stand by what I think happened, but the only video I see just shows Marquez plowing into RW while he's going like 8mph on the racing line....
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