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January 4th, 2012, 10:39 AM   #1
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10's of millions of dollars trying to figure out the chassis, and as it turns out, all they had to do was ask Carlos Checa. Its the tires.





http://www.superbike...Jan/120104a.htm





Simply oversimplified
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January 4th, 2012, 10:47 AM   #2
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Predicted it months ago: next years tire will be much better suited to the Ducati.
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January 4th, 2012, 03:27 PM   #3
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I predicted that rossi and jb couldn't fix the thing without a major re-design.



Imo it is the engine, both its dimensions, and as far as riders other than stoner and including rossi, the characteristics and in particular the power delivery which is the major problem. The tyres, and the bigbang engine and whatever else they did to "improve" the 2009 bike just made it worse in 2010 and 2011, such that it became unpredictably unstable rather than predictably unstable even for stoner in 2010.



Ducati themselves said in 2007 that the gp07 was designed specifically as an anti-rossi bike. Their mistakes were in concluding that anti-rossi bike capable riders were easily found, and that their bike could easily be transformed into a rossi bike.
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January 4th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #4
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Well, I think Checca is no idiot. While he may be stating something terribly simplistic, I'd give it some consideration.
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January 4th, 2012, 06:59 PM   #5
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Well ever since the Stoner/Ducati/Bridgestone partnership garnered such success in 2007 it has been apparent that their previous competitive advantage has been steadily eroded ever since - what they worked so hard to achieve together was simply given to their direct competition due to the constant whining we heard from the Sun God and his substantial following.



After a while a certain Spanish rider began bleating and again tires were doled out mid season all with the blessing of those tasked with the repsonsiblity of running the show.....however, only half the Repsol team received the new tires....the ones with a European passport. Coincidence? Maybe.



Since the beginning of 2008 we saw the results of the Ducati/Bridgestone combo steadily deteriorate and the performance of Yamaha/Bridgestone combination constantly improve......coincidence? Maybe.



2009 - No longer do Ducat/Bridgestone get to develop their tires to suit their bike as everyone now gets Bridgestone tires.....Ducati continue their decline - but really who cares? After all they now have a Yank and an Aussie in the team.



2011.......Sun God hops on to the now seriously in decline Ducati/Bridgestone combination and has by far his worst season ever.



Fast forward to 2012....



Bridestone tire characteristics are called into question on "safety grounds". Tire construction and manufacturing is to be altered / changed for said reason....coincidence? Maybe.



Testing regulations are relaxed. Ducati stand to be the largest beneficiary of such a rule change.....coincidence? Maybe.



Would any of these rule changes or competitors advantages have been given out if Casey Stoner or Nicky Hayden had requested them.....I very much doubt it - It certainly helps to put their world titles in perspective though.



Will the new tires and change in rules bring about a more successful 2012 for Rossi/Ducati? Who knows - but these changes certainly arent going to hurt their chances one would think. The irony of Rossi being one of the prime candidates responsible for the control tire we now see in MGP that may be the reason for Ducatis decline is certainly not lost on me.
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January 4th, 2012, 07:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Squiggle View Post
Well ever since the Stoner/Ducati/Bridgestone partnership garnered such success in 2007 it has been apparent that their previous competitive advantage has been steadily eroded ever since - what they worked so hard to achieve together was simply given to their direct competition due to the constant whining we heard from the Sun God and his substantial following.



After a while a certain Spanish rider began bleating and again tires were doled out mid season all with the blessing of those tasked with the repsonsiblity of running the show.....however, only half the Repsol team received the new tires....the ones with a European passport. Coincidence? Maybe.



Since the beginning of 2008 we saw the results of the Ducati/Bridgestone combo steadily deteriorate and the performance of Yamaha/Bridgestone combination constantly improve......coincidence? Maybe.



2009 - No longer do Ducat/Bridgestone get to develop their tires to suit their bike as everyone now gets Bridgestone tires.....Ducati continue their decline - but really who cares? After all they now have a Yank and an Aussie in the team.



2011.......Sun God hops on to the now seriously in decline Ducati/Bridgestone combination and has by far his worst season ever.



Fast forward to 2012....



Bridestone tire characteristics are called into question on "safety grounds". Tire construction and manufacturing is to be altered / changed for said reason....coincidence? Maybe.



Testing regulations are relaxed. Ducati stand to be the largest beneficiary of such a rule change.....coincidence? Maybe.



Would any of these rule changes or competitors advantages have been given out if Casey Stoner or Nicky Hayden had requested them.....I very much doubt it - It certainly helps to put their world titles in perspective though.



Will the new tires and change in rules bring about a more successful 2012 for Rossi/Ducati? Who knows - but these changes certainly arent going to hurt their chances one would think. The irony of Rossi being one of the prime candidates responsible for the control tire we now see in MGP that may be the reason for Ducatis decline is certainly not lost on me.
Its hard to imagine there are still people who would call that timeline coincidence. Its so fucking blatant, Gp is quickly losing any credibility they might have had. Dont forget, Rossi is working in an advisory role with Bridgestone in tire development.



" Rossi’s role will include his evaluation and opinions as an Adviser on the performance of Bridgestone motorcycle tyres, particularly in the hyper sport, racing and sport touring sectors. Bridgestone in turn will use his input in tyre development"
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January 4th, 2012, 07:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Squiggle View Post
Well ever since the Stoner/Ducati/Bridgestone partnership garnered such success in 2007 it has been apparent that their previous competitive advantage has been steadily eroded ever since - what they worked so hard to achieve together was simply given to their direct competition due to the constant whining we heard from the Sun God and his substantial following.



After a while a certain Spanish rider began bleating and again tires were doled out mid season all with the blessing of those tasked with the repsonsiblity of running the show.....however, only half the Repsol team received the new tires....the ones with a European passport. Coincidence? Maybe.



Since the beginning of 2008 we saw the results of the Ducati/Bridgestone combo steadily deteriorate and the performance of Yamaha/Bridgestone combination constantly improve......coincidence? Maybe.



2009 - No longer do Ducat/Bridgestone get to develop their tires to suit their bike as everyone now gets Bridgestone tires.....Ducati continue their decline - but really who cares? After all they now have a Yank and an Aussie in the team.



2011.......Sun God hops on to the now seriously in decline Ducati/Bridgestone combination and has by far his worst season ever.



Fast forward to 2012....



Bridestone tire characteristics are called into question on "safety grounds". Tire construction and manufacturing is to be altered / changed for said reason....coincidence? Maybe.



Testing regulations are relaxed. Ducati stand to be the largest beneficiary of such a rule change.....coincidence? Maybe.



Would any of these rule changes or competitors advantages have been given out if Casey Stoner or Nicky Hayden had requested them.....I very much doubt it - It certainly helps to put their world titles in perspective though.



Will the new tires and change in rules bring about a more successful 2012 for Rossi/Ducati? Who knows - but these changes certainly arent going to hurt their chances one would think. The irony of Rossi being one of the prime candidates responsible for the control tire we now see in MGP that may be the reason for Ducatis decline is certainly not lost on me.
I don't think there was too much wrong with the 2009 bike, in the hands of a healthy stoner anyway. He repeatedly said the problem was with him, not the bike, which I think was championship capable had he been fit the whole year. He basically had no dnfs, depending on how the warm-up lap incident is classified, which was more of a dns.



Something was drastically wrong with the 2010 bike even in his hands; sure the tyres may have contributed, but they changed many things, including going to a bigbang engine, in the search for "general rideability".It still remains so that the bike was not reliably ridden, whatever the tyres, at front of the field pace except by stoner, and it is also true that no-one including rossi has been able to duplicate his method of riding it. Interestingly on another forum recently there was a quote from troy bayliss, and he said he could not duplicate stoner's riding method on the ducati 800 either; he also said it was very different in character to the gp06 on which he won the race.
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January 4th, 2012, 08:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
Its hard to imagine there are still people who would call that timeline coincidence. Its so fucking blatant, Gp is quickly losing any credibility they might have had. Dont forget, Rossi is working in an advisory role with Bridgestone in tire development.



" Rossi’s role will include his evaluation and opinions as an Adviser on the performance of Bridgestone motorcycle tyres, particularly in the hyper sport, racing and sport touring sectors. Bridgestone in turn will use his input in tyre development"


I had the Rossi as a Bridgestone adviser info in my original post but deleted it since it is only for their "road tires" and supposedly has nothing to do with the MGP control tire - perhaps this is yet another coincidence....then again.
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January 4th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
I don't think there was too much wrong with the 2009 bike, in the hands of a healthy stoner anyway. He repeatedly said the problem was with him, not the bike, which I think was championship capable had he been fit the whole year. He basically had no dnfs, depending on how the warm-up lap incident is classified, which was more of a dns.



Something was drastically wrong with the 2010 bike even in his hands; sure the tyres may have contributed, but they changed many things, including going to a bigbang engine, in the search for "general rideability".It still remains so that the bike was not reliably ridden, whatever the tyres, at front of the field pace except by stoner, and it is also true that no-one including rossi has been able to duplicate his method of riding it. Interestingly on another forum recently there was a quote from troy bayliss; even he could not duplicate stoner's riding method on the ducati 800; he also said it was very different in character to the gp06 on whuch he won the race.


I guess if the support role Ducatis ridden by KA etc suddenly find some pace next year we can presume that something strange has indeed taken place in the off season and that the tires have in all probability been "Doctored" to suit the Ducati a little more.....the satellite bikes are as close to a "control" as one could expect given that the GP12 Rossi will be riding this season may be a radical departure from the other Ducati bikes out there.



Ducati will still be playing catchup - but the rule changes we have seen so far should make their job at least a little easier.
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January 4th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I had the Rossi as a Bridgestone adviser info in my original post but deleted it since it is only for their "road tires" and supposedly has nothing to do with the MGP control tire - perhaps this is yet another coincidence....then again.
Rossi would have to be clairvoyant to influence the 2012 bridgestones in his favour and unfavourably for his opponents particularly if they have already been designed, given that ducati are changing to a conventional aluminium chassis and considering changing the engine.



As you have pointed out, clairvoyance has failed him previously where tyres are concerned.
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