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June 14th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Gassit View Post
I reckon !!!!



Hayden had the audacity and outright gall to,



1) out place Stoner in races last year



2)Stay upright, and therefore outplace Stoner in races last year.



Woe betide anyone on a Repsol Honda shod machine that should be so feckless as not to know their place in the line.





It's the same ol' tactic used by Mick Doohan on everyone/anyone who had the ability to be able to stick somewhere near him Whinge whinge bloody moan. "Criville copied my settings"....... "Criville is only able to ride near me cause he copied my settings" ect ect ect.





It's the same ol' tactic used by Rossi on Sete Gibbon, Max Be-aggy pants.......although the whinge at Hee-Haw copting his settings seemed strangely minor.........I don't think that had anything with not being able to go with Hee-Haw, but maybe down to feeling pissed at Yamaha for giving Hee-Haw a pay rise, ( when he , as Rising Sun says, of the vomit coloured leathers, had offered to accept a pay cut, after Yamaha had cried poor) which in itself is rather childish........Although, in the same breath, a bit of a kick in the face to Rossi and JB...........the very people who dragged what was left of Yamaha from the position of sucking it's thumb and clutching (like a childs security blanket) dirty rags once used by Kel Caruthers somewhere in a dark corner of the workshop back to the top of the dias. A feat which akin to the second coming.





( Suzuki actually doing anything since they lost the one rider with the ability, and aparent complete lack of a sense of self presevation in his efforts to drag (and keep) a random assortment of nuts, bolts and various motorcycle looking bits to the top of the podium, is the Biblical equivelant of a second creation..... )





And now this Tactic is being used (somewhat poorly.........in direct comparison to the previous two examples........ahhh the youth of today) By Hee-Haw and Lord Big ears on poor ol' Simo.



This tactic, when you read between the lines, usually comes into play when riders who are doing well identify a threat to their standings or position, and commence with deriding the said individual in the public domain by using their" Lordy-Lordy -look at me and my acheivements....I know what I'm talking about and this guy is dangerous/can't do a thing without my help/is a whinger (???)/is in my way/slower bikes on the track" until the poor sod actually belives what they say and crumples into a heap before dissolving back into the general populus.....AKA Criville and the Gibbon.



The thing that's laughable is watching Hee-Haw and Stoner waffle on, when Simo is doing no worse than



1) Stoner at LCR (c'mon people, it wasn't that long ago....take those coloured glasses off)



2) Stoner in 250's



3) Lorenzo's first year in Moto.



Watching them sit side -by side and "Yes, yes......based on our infinite wisdom, I concur with what Prof Hee-Haw is saying"



..........""Yes, with our combined wisdom and all round nice fellow-always do everything by thbook-never dirty reputations, I determine that Casey and Myself are 100% correct"



.....is one of the funniest things I have ever seen. The only thing that can/will top this is the eventual falling out they will have when the inevitable battle between them occurs.





"Casey is dangerous"



"I used to have respect for Lorenzo....."





Who's worldy wisdom will carry the weight of persuasion then.....





Dear oh dear Simo..........fancy placing you leg exactly where Hee-Haw planned to put his bike and make him crash..........I mean, really........just how stupid are you ???









Hope these inept mind games don't get to Simo, and he has the chance to improve (or not).........Just as Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum had the opportunity to do.
You are very welcome on the forum as far as I am concerned, you are obviously an enthusiastic long-time follower of the sport, and express your opinions (to which you are absolutely entitled even if they differ from mine) in a colourful and amusing way.



However , like some of the posters who I find less admirable from my point of view you are conflating several different arguments in this post, and arguing against what you would like things to be rather than what they are.



Is casey stoner arrogant? Sure, as are all motogp champions with whom I am familiar with the possible exception of nicky hayden. Is stoner rather tightly wound and does he exaggerate the severity of some of these incidents? Quite possibly. But I have no doubt that he genuinely thinks this is a serious safety issue (whether or not you agree with him), to the extent it has become a personal crusade, and that this incident had nothing to do with nicky beating him on occasion last year or nicky copying his lines. I also think his issue with people seeking tows in general is a safety concern rather than with riders trying to discern his lines, with the exception of the rossi thing at estoril where he was looking for any excuse because he was (understandably and justifiably in my view) annoyed with rossi. Unlike mick doohan, he seems relaxed about team-mates having his data too.



Mick doohan when he raced pretty well defined irascible, and what you say about him complaining about other riders, particularly alex criville, stealing his set-up is absolutely as I remember things too. However, whilst I don't know what he complained about in practice and qualifying since we got little coverage here at that time as you know, I don't think he complained about alex seeking tows in the races because alex was copying his lines. By my recollection his complaint was that alex made none of the running in the races, and that his only tactic was to stay with mick the whole race by slipstreaming without attempting to pass, and then try to dive past on the last lap; I had some sympathy with mick finding this annoying.
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June 14th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Gassit View Post
I reckon !!!!



Hayden had the audacity and outright gall to,



1) out place Stoner in races last year



2)Stay upright, and therefore outplace Stoner in races last year.



Woe betide anyone on a Repsol Honda shod machine that should be so feckless as not to know their place in the line.





It's the same ol' tactic used by Mick Doohan on everyone/anyone who had the ability to be able to stick somewhere near him Whinge whinge bloody moan. "Criville copied my settings"....... "Criville is only able to ride near me cause he copied my settings" ect ect ect.





It's the same ol' tactic used by Rossi on Sete Gibbon, Max Be-aggy pants.......although the whinge at Hee-Haw copting his settings seemed strangely minor.........I don't think that had anything with not being able to go with Hee-Haw, but maybe down to feeling pissed at Yamaha for giving Hee-Haw a pay rise, ( when he , as Rising Sun says, of the vomit coloured leathers, had offered to accept a pay cut, after Yamaha had cried poor) which in itself is rather childish........Although, in the same breath, a bit of a kick in the face to Rossi and JB...........the very people who dragged what was left of Yamaha from the position of sucking it's thumb and clutching (like a childs security blanket) dirty rags once used by Kel Caruthers somewhere in a dark corner of the workshop back to the top of the dias. A feat which akin to the second coming.





( Suzuki actually doing anything since they lost the one rider with the ability, and aparent complete lack of a sense of self presevation in his efforts to drag (and keep) a random assortment of nuts, bolts and various motorcycle looking bits to the top of the podium, is the Biblical equivelant of a second creation..... )





And now this Tactic is being used (somewhat poorly.........in direct comparison to the previous two examples........ahhh the youth of today) By Hee-Haw and Lord Big ears on poor ol' Simo.



This tactic, when you read between the lines, usually comes into play when riders who are doing well identify a threat to their standings or position, and commence with deriding the said individual in the public domain by using their" Lordy-Lordy -look at me and my acheivements....I know what I'm talking about and this guy is dangerous/can't do a thing without my help/is a whinger (???)/is in my way/slower bikes on the track" until the poor sod actually belives what they say and crumples into a heap before dissolving back into the general populus.....AKA Criville and the Gibbon.



The thing that's laughable is watching Hee-Haw and Stoner waffle on, when Simo is doing no worse than



1) Stoner at LCR (c'mon people, it wasn't that long ago....take those coloured glasses off)



2) Stoner in 250's



3) Lorenzo's first year in Moto.



Watching them sit side -by side and "Yes, yes......based on our infinite wisdom, I concur with what Prof Hee-Haw is saying"



..........""Yes, with our combined wisdom and all round nice fellow-always do everything by thbook-never dirty reputations, I determine that Casey and Myself are 100% correct"



.....is one of the funniest things I have ever seen. The only thing that can/will top this is the eventual falling out they will have when the inevitable battle between them occurs.





"Casey is dangerous"



"I used to have respect for Lorenzo....."





Who's worldy wisdom will carry the weight of persuasion then.....





Dear oh dear Simo..........fancy placing you leg exactly where Hee-Haw planned to put his bike and make him crash..........I mean, really........just how stupid are you ???









Hope these inept mind games don't get to Simo, and he has the chance to improve (or not).........Just as Tweedle-dee and Tweedle-dum had the opportunity to do.
You are very welcome on the forum as far as I am concerned, you are obviously an enthusiastic long-time follower of the sport, and express your opinions (to which you are absolutely entitled even if they differ from mine) in a colourful and amusing way.



However , like some of the posters who I find less admirable from my point of view you are conflating several different arguments in this post, and arguing against what you would like things to be rather than what they are.



Is casey stoner arrogant? Sure, as are all motogp champions with whom I am familiar with the possible exception of nicky hayden. Is stoner rather tightly wound and does he exaggerate the severity of some of these incidents? Quite possibly. But I have no doubt that he genuinely thinks this is a serious safety issue (whether or not you agree with him), to the extent it has become a personal crusade, and that this incident had nothing to do with nicky beating him on occasion last year or nicky copying his lines. I also think his issue with people seeking tows in general is a safety concern rather than with riders trying to discern his lines, with the exception of the rossi thing at estoril where he was looking for any excuse because he was (understandably and justifiably in my view) annoyed with rossi. Unlike mick doohan, he seems relaxed about team-mates having his data too.



Mick doohan when he raced pretty well defined irascible, and what you say about him complaining about other riders, particularly alex criville, stealing his set-up is absolutely as I remember things too. However, whilst I don't know what he complained about in practice and qualifying since we got little coverage here at that time as you know, I don't think he complained about alex seeking tows in the races because alex was copying his lines. By my recollection his complaint was that alex made none of the running in the races, and that his only tactic was to stay with mick the whole race by slipstreaming without attempting to pass, and then try to dive past on the last lap; I had some sympathy with mick finding this annoying.
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June 14th, 2011, 05:40 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chopperman View Post
12.62 mpg aint too bad at all at the revs and power output those bikes are pumping out ! im impressed


Well they aren't sitting at traffic lights wasting fuel





.... well not for long anyway
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June 14th, 2011, 05:55 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
You are very welcome on the forum as far as I am concerned, you are obviously an enthusiastic long-time follower of the sport, and express your opinions (to which you are absolutely entitled even if they differ from mine) in a colourful and amusing way.



However , like some of the posters who I find less admirable from my point of view you are conflating several different arguments in this post, and arguing against what you would like things to be rather than what they are.



Is casey stoner arrogant? Sure, as are all motogp champions with whom I am familiar with the possible exception of nicky hayden. Is stoner rather tightly wound and does he exaggerate the severity of some of these incidents? Quite possibly. But I have no doubt that he genuinely thinks this is a serious safety issue (whether or not you agree with him), to the extent it has become a personal crusade, and that this incident had nothing to do with nicky beating him on occasion last year or nicky copying his lines. I also think his issue with people seeking tows in general is a safety concern rather than with riders trying to discern his lines, with the exception of the rossi thing at estoril where he was looking for any excuse because he was (understandably and justifiably in my view) annoyed with rossi. Unlike mick doohan, he seems relaxed about team-mates having his data too.



Mick doohan when he raced pretty well defined irascible, and what you say about him complaining about other riders, particularly alex criville, stealing his set-up is absolutely as I remember things too. However, whilst I don't know what he complained about in practice and qualifying since we got little coverage here at that time as you know, I don't think he complained about alex seeking tows in the races because alex was copying his lines. By my recollection his complaint was that alex made none of the running in the races, and that his only tactic was to stay with mick the whole race by slipstreaming without attempting to pass, and then try to dive past on the last lap; I had some sympathy with mick finding this annoying.




In a race you kinda cop it when folk are trailing you close but its a very dangerous thing for both riders. The main scary thing for the leading rider is that it removes a big safety opt out, ie. being able to stop as fast and controlably as you possibly can in the event of an emergency.

Now as I said that pretty much something you ignore or wear in a race ...........





but when its just a practice session the impact of doing so seems tenfold worse. Its the time you really may need an emergency stop.evasion/slowdown ( practice sessions don't flow like a race usually ), its the time folk are changing and checking out lines etc, and to be honest if someone is trailling you, in a practice session you feel that the ultimate goal for the opponent is to go as fast as they can ....... not follow you around and affect your performance by robbing you of a safety escape.
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June 14th, 2011, 06:08 PM   #85
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
You are very welcome on the forum as far as I am concerned, you are obviously an enthusiastic long-time follower of the sport, and express your opinions (to which you are absolutely entitled even if they differ from mine) in a colourful and amusing way.



However , like some of the posters who I find less admirable from my point of view you are conflating several different arguments in this post, and arguing against what you would like things to be rather than what they are.



Is casey stoner arrogant? Sure, as are all motogp champions with whom I am familiar with the possible exception of nicky hayden. Is stoner rather tightly wound and does he exaggerate the severity of some of these incidents? Quite possibly. But I have no doubt that he genuinely thinks this is a serious safety issue (whether or not you agree with him), to the extent it has become a personal crusade, and that this incident had nothing to do with nicky beating him on occasion last year or nicky copying his lines. I also think his issue with people seeking tows in general is a safety concern rather than with riders trying to discern his lines, with the exception of the rossi thing at estoril where he was looking for any excuse because he was (understandably and justifiably in my view) annoyed with rossi. Unlike mick doohan, he seems relaxed about team-mates having his data too.



Mick doohan when he raced pretty well defined irascible, and what you say about him complaining about other riders, particularly alex criville, stealing his set-up is absolutely as I remember things too. However, whilst I don't know what he complained about in practice and qualifying since we got little coverage here at that time as you know, I don't think he complained about alex seeking tows in the races because alex was copying his lines. By my recollection his complaint was that alex made none of the running in the races, and that his only tactic was to stay with mick the whole race by slipstreaming without attempting to pass, and then try to dive past on the last lap; I had some sympathy with mick finding this annoying.


Hey, I am in agreement with everything you just said !!!



My goal is not to convince the world of my opinion, but to voice it, listen to others opinions so that I may see both sides of the coin.



My opinions are just that...........a different view point, not the gospel of how GP racing should be.



But, I also agree with Bazza.............Shi-i-t.......that kind of thing goes on in all motorsport, has done since they bolted wheels to a plank of wood...........and you either suck it up and ingnore it.......or cry.



That's in the race.



I also agree that in practise and Qualifying, it can be somewhat dangerous.........and may rightly put the willies up you, therefore putting you off your game.........and giving you a right royal case of the trots.



6 to one1/2 dozen of the other really.
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June 14th, 2011, 06:24 PM   #86
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
You are very welcome on the forum as far as I am concerned, you are obviously an enthusiastic long-time follower of the sport, and express your opinions (to which you are absolutely entitled even if they differ from mine) in a colourful and amusing way.



However , like some of the posters who I find less admirable from my point of view you are conflating several different arguments in this post, and arguing against what you would like things to be rather than what they are.



Is casey stoner arrogant? Sure, as are all motogp champions with whom I am familiar with the possible exception of nicky hayden. Is stoner rather tightly wound and does he exaggerate the severity of some of these incidents? Quite possibly. But I have no doubt that he genuinely thinks this is a serious safety issue (whether or not you agree with him), to the extent it has become a personal crusade, and that this incident had nothing to do with nicky beating him on occasion last year or nicky copying his lines. I also think his issue with people seeking tows in general is a safety concern rather than with riders trying to discern his lines, with the exception of the rossi thing at estoril where he was looking for any excuse because he was (understandably and justifiably in my view) annoyed with rossi. Unlike mick doohan, he seems relaxed about team-mates having his data too.



Mick doohan when he raced pretty well defined irascible, and what you say about him complaining about other riders, particularly alex criville, stealing his set-up is absolutely as I remember things too. However, whilst I don't know what he complained about in practice and qualifying since we got little coverage here at that time as you know, I don't think he complained about alex seeking tows in the races because alex was copying his lines. By my recollection his complaint was that alex made none of the running in the races, and that his only tactic was to stay with mick the whole race by slipstreaming without attempting to pass, and then try to dive past on the last lap; I had some sympathy with mick finding this annoying.


Good post michaelm - your last 2 paragraphs are pretty good from a armchair enthusiats point of view as us all.......

Ofcourse CS is strung out - he wants to be at the top and knows its in his grasp and minor incidents can set you back big time, unfortunately with the press he just come out all wrong I bet he wish's he could press the rewind button, he hates doing the press not his character.

Ah I recall Mick D making point of Crevilles last lap wonders after sitting back the whole race and don't blame him but I always thought why didn't you cover the line more but you also can say Creville worked out the only way he could beat him after so many floggings LOL......
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June 14th, 2011, 06:41 PM   #87
 
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Sorry Michael, just to clarify what I said/meant.



This slagging/whinging tactic is an old one.



These two (especially in the "Simo is dangerous" diatribe, as against the probably valid and understandable, if it is in regards to safety, comment on Hayden) carry it off less succesfully than others have in the past.



They will eventually be at each other throats over similar ( if not the same) issues, and the current show of united concern I find rather amusing.
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June 14th, 2011, 07:54 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Gassit View Post
Sorry Michael, just to clarify what I said/meant.



This slagging/whinging tactic is an old one.



These two (especially in the "Simo is dangerous" diatribe, as against the probably valid and understandable, if it is in regards to safety, comment on Hayden) carry it off less succesfully than others have in the past.



They will eventually be at each other throats over similar ( if not the same) issues, and the current show of united concern I find rather amusing.
Sure, whilst I think marco does not race with great intelligence in general I agree, and said at the time, that the specific pedrosa incident was both contributed to by dani and largely a beat-up, and that lorenzo's pronouncements were hypocritical given his record in the past including incidents with simoncelli.



My point with nicky and stoner in regard to the practice incident is that whether or not he is correct or dealing with the issue in the right manner stoner has the same attitude to all riders concerning this matter, and that it largely independent of his (acknowledged )general arrogance.
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June 15th, 2011, 03:34 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by hawkdriver View Post
This is his second incident with Hayden this year. You might not be that inconsiderate but do you remember when Casey stood up Abraham and Hayden this year during a practice sesion. He did it to Hayden mid corner, like Hayden was supposed to know Casey was coming. He can't have it both ways and go on sooking and moaning when he's doing his fair share of dirty shit out on the track.


...funny I don't remember Hayden hollering and screaming or shaking his fist when this happened....hmmm
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June 15th, 2011, 04:08 AM   #90
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...funny I don't remember Hayden hollering and screaming or shaking his fist when this happened....hmmm
Not saying he was correct, and I actually said hayden deserved better from him at the time, but I suspect he considered nicky to be dawdling on the racing line on that occasion as well.



Rossi on gpone is complaining, as he is also entitled to do, about de puniet holding him up on the week-end in the warm-up btw.



Regardless, I see very little evidence that the other riders in general dislike let alone hate stoner as some would apparently prefer to be the case; they seem to attribute this stuff both to him having a particular bee in his bonnet with perhaps some basis in fact, and to his intensity when racing. The bottom line is that whatever his detractors might like to say about his attitude he races as safely as anyone does, gives room when appropriate and all including rossi seem to find him a trustworthy opponent with whom to dice; on at least one occasion valentino in fact greatly relied on casey's judgement and reaction time .



I see this in the same light as talpa et al's animadversions about how badly stoner treated his crew and how they must hate him; oddly having followed him from lcr to ducati they have now also followed him to honda, with his crew chief at least having been with him since the lcr aprilia 250 days.
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