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May 18th, 2011, 09:09 PM   #31
 
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I just had to sign in and put my 2 cents in. First of all.......... You all are fuccin' crazy, excuse the language. We all know right from the beginning of his career he has been nothing more then a marketing tool for the American market. He's only a product of what Honda started off with....... which is to market an American rider to sell, so they invested everything at him, giving him the best bike so he can win his little AMA championship to put him in the big show which is MotoGP. Now that his Honda exposure is over, he's left with little to nothing else except for that smile of his, which somehow sells motorcycles. Heck, you think Ducati hired him in hopes of winning a championship for them? Or the more realistic notion is Ducati is using him to sell their bikes to the American market?? Don't play dumb people..... we all know this, maybe that is why we symphatize for the poor chap, but in the end........ reallly, he should thank his lucky stars he ever got this far in his career beacause face it, at best, he is a low tier rider....... if not for the backing, he'd be those riders with hopes and dreams racing into his late 50's in club racing. And that's the truth.



Yes. Nicky Hayden.
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May 18th, 2011, 09:29 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Even though philosophically the best of the best thing and the best rider winning by 30 seconds if he is that much better, and the prototype thing, appeal to me, I agree with lex as I do about several other things that despite appearances the msma might be the problem rather than dorna. These guys don't want privateers to be competitive, or competitive new teams from new manufacturers, and will doubtless decide to concentrate on ever more esoteric developmental ends if left to their own devices. In the great era of the 500s the formula had been fairly stable for a prolonged period, and with the bikes relatively cheaper there was a wider distribution of bikes with some winning chance; it has been not unreasonably speculated in the recent past that manufacturers may have given an absolutely top-spec bike to only 1 rider in their factory team, let alone to other teams. The one line nature of the current formula also is injurious to racing, and the new fromula is still a fuel efficiency formula and may not change this.


I must admit I lost a lot of interest in the sport when the 4 stroke era began. The two stroke era for me is irreplaceable not just because of the fantastic racing it produced but also some of the intangibles that accompanied it...going to see a Grand Prix at Phillip Island back in "the good ole days" was like a religious experience....the smell that wafted over you as you entered the track put you in a trance and set the stage for a day of devotion to the gods of racing....wouldn't it be great to see a return to the 500 strokers, the fuel restriction limit lifted and the death of the MSMA - we might get good racing again.....dare to dream.



It does seem suspicious to me that since the four strokes have entered the sport there does seem to be a disparity between the factory machinery ridden by the number 1 and number 2 riders - Lorenzo seemed to insinuate this when he stipulated he wanted equal machinery with Valentino written into his contract....is the same thing now happening to Ben Spies?



Lex has an uncanny ability to see beyond the obvious and I place much credence in what he says even if some do consider him to be a conspiracy theorist.
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May 19th, 2011, 01:10 AM   #33
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In my honest opinion, Hayden has come off as downtrodden since 2009 began. The magic wand that is Rossi and JB have yet to truly unlock the Ducati in the way that they unlocked the Yamaha. Sure, things have improved from pre-season, but the improvement has been from somewhere around 13th to consistently 9th. Take the time frame from the Estoril test to Le Mans, just this frame of time. At the test, Hayden was something like the second most improved rider compared to weekend times. Circulating right at the same pace as Rossi. Le Mans comes and all throughout he's fastest Ducati and seems to have the pace to run somewhere near Dovizioso, Lorenzo, and whoever else was in that trailing group behind the three big Hondas. Race day comes and Rossi's quicker, Edwards is quicker, Spies is quicker, Dovi and Lorenzo are completely out of sight. I don't know what happened on Sunday, but he went backwards in dramatic fashion. That's a back breaker.



He's got a contract for 2012, so he doesn't have the pressure of securing a ride. But I have to wonder how much of his input is being listened to and if he's getting the same equipment. Unless the 1000cc are a little more compatible to his style, I'd rather see him in World Supers. I don't think that will happen, though. He's never been interested in any world championship outside of grand prix.



And as far as the fuel restrictions go, it's the same for everyone. My personal opinion is that Hayden is the least compatible rider with the current rules package, but it is what it is. Many riders have made it work, he's ever improving but will likely never be the same force on an 800 with no fuel than he was on a 990.



The system in the US is broken. You can point fingers as much as you'd like and say US and Aus riders don't get the same chances all you like. However, Spain breeds good riders and has companies ready, willing, and able to support the sport and their riders financially. I won't speak for Aus SBK as I'm not very familiar, but until the AMA can begin to develop and promote their younger riders, this scene will not improve on the international stage. It does very little for US racing to continue to pay rather big money to guys like Ben Bostrom to race Superbike while the young up-and-comers squabble over whatever is left. Ask Jum, there are world class riders cobbling together their own rides because no one wants the kids and everyone wants the names. Lex is bang on, it's not in the AMA's best interest to promote young kids, because ultimately they leave.



You want to know who the next young US rider will be entering the grand prix spectacle? It's Jake Gagne. And he's riding in the CEV. Although this is nothing new. If I'm not mistaken, it's how Casey Stoner got to where he is, and I think Bradley Smith spent a year in CEV as well.
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May 19th, 2011, 02:08 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Mr Squiggle View Post
I must admit I lost a lot of interest in the sport when the 4 stroke era began. The two stroke era for me is irreplaceable not just because of the fantastic racing it produced but also some of the intangibles that accompanied it...going to see a Grand Prix at Phillip Island back in "the good ole days" was like a religious experience....the smell that wafted over you as you entered the track put you in a trance and set the stage for a day of devotion to the gods of racing....wouldn't it be great to see a return to the 500 strokers, the fuel restriction limit lifted and the death of the MSMA - we might get good racing again.....dare to dream.



It does seem suspicious to me that since the four strokes have entered the sport there does seem to be a disparity between the factory machinery ridden by the number 1 and number 2 riders - Lorenzo seemed to insinuate this when he stipulated he wanted equal machinery with Valentino written into his contract....is the same thing now happening to Ben Spies?



Lex has an uncanny ability to see beyond the obvious and I place much credence in what he says even if some do consider him to be a conspiracy theorist.
Agree wholeheartedly with everything bar the last sentence concerning Lex's purported powers of prescience and supposed sagacity



So true, brilliantly put - the 500's had a mythical appeal. My first 500ccGP was an epiphany - a pilgrimage made possible because I pestered my old man having converted from F1. The blue smoke lingered like sweet aromatic incense and the crews mechanics and the press bustled around the grid like High Priests, making offerings to thier gods. The circuits were cathedrals and the garages were shrines. There was something proselytizing about the cult of two stroke racing - inoxicating, one sniff and you were hooked. When the smoke finally clears at the end of this season with the demise of the 125 class in many ways racing will have lost this colourful past to a monochrome future. But I'm the first to admit, it's not simply black and white - Moto2 has been a revelation in itself banishing the inequities of the 250 class which selectively conferred its favours to the few, and I similarly expect the new Moto 3 to resurrect the potency of racing where the 125 classhas become quite sterile. Nevertheless I shall still remain misty eyed in my lamentation and occasional reverie for the Old Testament.
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May 19th, 2011, 02:51 AM   #35
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Lex has an uncanny ability to see beyond the obvious and I place much credence in what he says even if some do consider him to be a conspiracy theorist.


Don't be so paranoid.
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May 19th, 2011, 03:57 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
Agree wholeheartedly with everything bar the last sentence concerning Lex's purported powers of prescience and supposed sagacity



So true, brilliantly put - the 500's had a mythical appeal. My first 500ccGP was an epiphany - a pilgrimage made possible because I pestered my old man having converted from F1. The blue smoke lingered like sweet aromatic incense and the crews mechanics and the press bustled around the grid like High Priests, making offerings to thier gods. The circuits were cathedrals and the garages were shrines. There was something proselytizing about the cult of two stroke racing - inoxicating, one sniff and you were hooked. When the smoke finally clears at the end of this season with the demise of the 125 class in many ways racing will have lost this colourful past to a monochrome future. But I'm the first to admit, it's not simply black and white - Moto2 has been a revelation in itself banishing the inequities of the 250 class which selectively conferred its favours to the few, and I similarly expect the new Moto 3 to resurrect the potency of racing where the 125 classhas become quite sterile. Nevertheless I shall still remain misty eyed in my lamentation and occasional reverie for the Old Testament.


What a sensational piece of writing. You do have a phenomenal way with words. Krop should be careful if you were ever to try your hand at your own site and follow in his foot steps.
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May 19th, 2011, 04:06 AM   #37
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What a sensational piece of writing. You do have a phenomenal way with words. Krop should be careful if you were ever to try your hand at your own site and follow in his foot steps.
Thanks - I genuinely appreciate that, but I think I'll leave that department in the trained and capable hands of real scribes such as Mr Emmett and 'Oost.



Actually an afterthought regarding Moto 3 - I'm sure Criville is set to ride unveil one of the bikes next race at Catalunya. I remember in '01 when Katsuaki Fujiwara did the a few laps there on the M1 - and the speed in which the shutter came down on the garage afterwards. Can't remember where Doohan and Spencer first aired the V5 - probably Motegi.
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May 19th, 2011, 04:20 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
So true, brilliantly put - the 500's had a mythical appeal. My first 500ccGP was an epiphany - a pilgrimage made possible because I pestered my old man having converted from F1. The blue smoke lingered like sweet aromatic incense and the crews mechanics and the press bustled around the grid like High Priests, making offerings to thier gods. The circuits were cathedrals and the garages were shrines. There was something proselytizing about the cult of two stroke racing - inoxicating, one sniff and you were hooked. When the smoke finally clears at the end of this season with the demise of the 125 class in many ways racing will have lost this colourful past to a monochrome future. But I'm the first to admit, it's not simply black and white - Moto2 has been a revelation in itself banishing the inequities of the 250 class which selectively conferred its favours to the few, and I similarly expect the new Moto 3 to resurrect the potency of racing where the 125 classhas become quite sterile. Nevertheless I shall still remain misty eyed in my lamentation and occasional reverie for the Old Testament.


Arrab, you been reading my posts in other forums?



You and I have very similar feelings towards the golden era.



I have often described the era as one where mystical gods fought to control a beast, so wild that it could devour lesser mortals in the bat of an eyelid. An era of pure poetry and artistry where man fought machine for superiority over a thin ribbon of tarmac. A time when fans could be involved as the smell of wafting blue two stroke residue bought more joy to a person that a bunch of loose women at a sailor convention, where the sound was better than beethoven and where men were men and the boys went home.



A time before business took over and manifested itself into an ugly big brother intent on bullying all into submission should they not do what they want and what they say. When the racers raced hard, drank hard, smoked hard and played hard.



Shit they were good days, sadly long gone but how we yearn and how we enjoy little snippets of highlights that allow us to see what our sport was and then realise how far it has progressed and whether we like it or not, in 20 years time someone, somewhere will be lamenting the loss of todays bikes just as we lament the golden era.



I long for the era or at least a return to something like it, but I fear I live in unadulterated hope for something that will never occur so instead I now watch in awe of the modern, all the while asking myself the perennial question.



Off to youtube now, I need a fis







Arrab, it was a great poetic piece and mate, no doubt you and I and a myriad of others in this place could sit for hours over a drink or 15 discussing the merits of that Rainey moment, or that Doohan slide, or whether the Chile win really counts etc etc









Gaz
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May 19th, 2011, 05:32 AM   #39
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In my honest opinion, Hayden has come off as downtrodden since 2009 began. The magic wand that is Rossi and JB have yet to truly unlock the Ducati in the way that they unlocked the Yamaha. Sure, things have improved from pre-season, but the improvement has been from somewhere around 13th to consistently 9th. Take the time frame from the Estoril test to Le Mans, just this frame of time. At the test, Hayden was something like the second most improved rider compared to weekend times. Circulating right at the same pace as Rossi. Le Mans comes and all throughout he's fastest Ducati and seems to have the pace to run somewhere near Dovizioso, Lorenzo, and whoever else was in that trailing group behind the three big Hondas. Race day comes and Rossi's quicker, Edwards is quicker, Spies is quicker, Dovi and Lorenzo are completely out of sight. I don't know what happened on Sunday, but he went backwards in dramatic fashion. That's a back breaker.



He's got a contract for 2012, so he doesn't have the pressure of securing a ride. But I have to wonder how much of his input is being listened to and if he's getting the same equipment. Unless the 1000cc are a little more compatible to his style, I'd rather see him in World Supers. I don't think that will happen, though. He's never been interested in any world championship outside of grand prix.



And as far as the fuel restrictions go, it's the same for everyone. My personal opinion is that Hayden is the least compatible rider with the current rules package, but it is what it is. Many riders have made it work, he's ever improving but will likely never be the same force on an 800 with no fuel than he was on a 990.



The system in the US is broken. You can point fingers as much as you'd like and say US and Aus riders don't get the same chances all you like. However, Spain breeds good riders and has companies ready, willing, and able to support the sport and their riders financially. I won't speak for Aus SBK as I'm not very familiar, but until the AMA can begin to develop and promote their younger riders, this scene will not improve on the international stage. It does very little for US racing to continue to pay rather big money to guys like Ben Bostrom to race Superbike while the young up-and-comers squabble over whatever is left. Ask Jum, there are world class riders cobbling together their own rides because no one wants the kids and everyone wants the names. Lex is bang on, it's not in the AMA's best interest to promote young kids, because ultimately they leave.



You want to know who the next young US rider will be entering the grand prix spectacle? It's Jake Gagne. And he's riding in the CEV. Although this is nothing new. If I'm not mistaken, it's how Casey Stoner got to where he is, and I think Bradley Smith spent a year in CEV as well.
He will have to dominate the series to get a sniff. If he runs anywhere but first, he will more than likely be a a forgotten soul in the European bike

racing world and end up back in the states begging for spare parts on the internet just to make it to the next race.
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May 19th, 2011, 05:33 AM   #40
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Arrab, it was a great poetic piece and mate, no doubt you and I and a myriad of others in this place could sit for hours over a drink or 15 discussing the merits of that Rainey moment, or that Doohan slide, or whether the Chile win really counts etc etc









Gaz
I reckon you mean Chili at Misano?
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