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November 24th, 2010, 10:11 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Tom View Post
That is simply the nature of motorsport, it has always been like that.
Yes, so you can imagine the effect it would have it one or two of its contestants had a and advantage or disadvantage written into the contest before it even starts. That what it meant for Hayden when he was forced to race with a bike not designed or developed for him, and that's what it meant when Dorna coerced that Rossi should be on Bstones while detrimentally allowing others to ride in what was perceived to be inferior equipment. And for years, when under the approval of the governing body, certain riders were given superior tires for race day.
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November 24th, 2010, 10:43 AM   #52
 
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Thank you for your honest reply. I appreciate what you are saying. Usually people just battle for the sake of it because they peg me as hating Rossi. This is were the conversation usually ends and the arguing begins. The truth is, some, not all, does unfortunately revolve around him since he's become such a prominent figure. I've often said, but they will ignore it, that Rossi has the right to ask, hell he can ask for an extra few ccs or even a head start, its up to the governing body to deny this and treat everybody even handed. But the Rossi fan will continue to argue with me as its just unacceptable to them for me to include Rossi in a conversation of favoritism even thought I place more blame on Dorna.



-----------------------------------------Edited to save space----------------------------------------------------------------------------------





This left the top two factories split, Yamaha and Honda. The two most influential riders of the sport were awarded the Bstones after the manufacture had publicly said they would not do so. What could possibly make them change their mind? It sure wasn't Jesus.


Just I said. Interesting,well thought out & well written.

I may not subscibe to all that you say, but I dont think I'd have it me to argue points to any great length.

You certainly have a talent for putting your viewpoint forward.
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November 24th, 2010, 10:45 AM   #53
 
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If Hayden can put it on the podium, Rossi will win on it.
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November 24th, 2010, 11:54 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Rootsman View Post
If Hayden can put it on the podium, Rossi will win on it.
i can recall a lot of people saying that but even though i'm not a big fan of hayden i can't stand that hes usually regarded as a second rate driver. if nicky gives it everything i'm pretty sure that there is not too much left to be squeezed out ,even by the goat
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November 24th, 2010, 12:28 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by SprogTheDog View Post
Just I said. Interesting,well thought out & well written.

I may not subscibe to all that you say, but I dont think I'd have it me to argue points to any great length.

You certainly have a talent for putting your viewpoint forward.
Thanks. I'm tickled you held on to the end of that essay. I use to write even longer ones than that ya know. Much to many's chagrin.





Roots, perhaps. I don't doubt Rossi's talent, its fantastic. I just watched Catalunya 2009 again today; this was perhaps one of the best examples of Rossi's talent! But it’s also an example of two talented riders on the best package in MotoGP too. So, you may disagree with what I deduce from the series, but notwithstanding, here is my take on your point; I wouldn't say it’s a difference in talent necessarily, as it will be team orders. Yes, I know peeps think Rossi is 10x the rider that Nicky is, but I wholeheartedly disagree. While I don’t think Nicky is better than Rossi, Nicky has decidedly been on the wrong side of factory support his entire GP career. Its really amazing he even scored a championship. What I don't have is the results to back up my claim, but I do have an understanding of the sport and its nature to equip certain riders with a fighting chance. Sure, something difficult to prove, unless you are paying close attention to some of the indictments that sometimes surface about the parity of the playing field. For a good example of this, look up an recorded interview on superbikeplanet from Kenny Roberts Jr. about the scripted nature of GP.



So, about team orders, something that both Ducati and Rossi hold near to them, and consider it almost a right. Ask Alex Barros, when at Mugello he did the unthinkable; he beat a factory rider, Stoner, to the podium. He was reprimanded by Ducati. Now consider that much of the drama this year was about Rossi's discontent with Yamaha for having the audacity of allowing Lorenzo an equal status. I can't help but think that as part of the negotiation that Rossi had with Ducati was a stipulation that he would be the sole #1 rider and given the chance, Nicky was to explicitly follow suit. Sure, I don't have the contract in front of me. But one only need to look at other similar examples. Now we can ignore this and continue to look at the results throughout GP history and conclude, well the championship position is the only indication of rider talent. But it’ss my personal opinion (and many will disagree) that this is NOT the ONLY direct indication of talent, as I believe many factors must be combined with that assessment. GP is not a tennis match, where you have one guy battling the other, and the only thing they volley is a ball showcasing individual talent.
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November 24th, 2010, 01:40 PM   #56
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For fucks sake Jum, i think maybe you have far too much time on ya hands pal -



Hands off socks, hands on cocks or somin before ya get RSI!!
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November 24th, 2010, 04:24 PM   #57
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I don't blame them as when I watch my rugby team play I only see and swear at the bad calls the ref makes against my team!
I try to be fair about bike racing on this forum, but this does not extend to rugby, where I do subscribe to conspiracy theories involving northern hemisphere and south african referees .
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November 24th, 2010, 07:43 PM   #58
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Thanks. I'm tickled you held on to the end of that essay. I use to write even longer ones than that ya know. Much to many's chagrin.





Roots, perhaps. I don't doubt Rossi's talent, its fantastic. I just watched Catalunya 2009 again today; this was perhaps one of the best examples of Rossi's talent! But it’s also an example of two talented riders on the best package in MotoGP too. So, you may disagree with what I deduce from the series, but notwithstanding, here is my take on your point; I wouldn't say it’s a difference in talent necessarily, as it will be team orders. Yes, I know peeps think Rossi is 10x the rider that Nicky is, but I wholeheartedly disagree. While I don’t think Nicky is better than Rossi, Nicky has decidedly been on the wrong side of factory support his entire GP career. Its really amazing he even scored a championship. What I don't have is the results to back up my claim, but I do have an understanding of the sport and its nature to equip certain riders with a fighting chance. Sure, something difficult to prove, unless you are paying close attention to some of the indictments that sometimes surface about the parity of the playing field. For a good example of this, look up an recorded interview on superbikeplanet from Kenny Roberts Jr. about the scripted nature of GP.



So, about team orders, something that both Ducati and Rossi hold near to them, and consider it almost a right. Ask Alex Barros, when at Mugello he did the unthinkable; he beat a factory rider, Stoner, to the podium. He was reprimanded by Ducati. Now consider that much of the drama this year was about Rossi's discontent with Yamaha for having the audacity of allowing Lorenzo an equal status. I can't help but think that as part of the negotiation that Rossi had with Ducati was a stipulation that he would be the sole #1 rider and given the chance, Nicky was to explicitly follow suit. Sure, I don't have the contract in front of me. But one only need to look at other similar examples. Now we can ignore this and continue to look at the results throughout GP history and conclude, well the championship position is the only indication of rider talent. But it’ss my personal opinion (and many will disagree) that this is NOT the ONLY direct indication of talent, as I believe many factors must be combined with that assessment. GP is not a tennis match, where you have one guy battling the other, and the only thing they volley is a ball showcasing individual talent.


I see what you are trying to say - I don't agree with it all but I'm not so naive as to believe that politics and money don't drive the riders' access to the right equipment. While I believe that Nicky probably knows that he is the number 2 rider and Valentino has a contract that says he is number 1, I don't believe that Nicky will be told to finish behind Valentino, nor do I want that.



Have you got a link to Barros' reprimand? I haven't read about that. Interestingly, it seems that maybe Stoner has been given a helping hand as well if you subscribe to your way of thinking. That is, if Barros was the one to ignore the rule, maybe the other riders are observing the rule.



Sometimes, it would be nice to just know the facts. Save time hypothesising strange conspiracy theories which ultimately, although based on events and snippets of comments, remain just that... theories.
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November 24th, 2010, 08:52 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by woody996 View Post
Interestingly, it seems that maybe Stoner has been given a helping hand as well if you subscribe to your way of thinking. That is, if Barros was the one to ignore the rule, maybe the other riders are observing the rule.


Yeah the other Ducati riders were told to finish 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th!!!
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November 24th, 2010, 08:59 PM   #60
 
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They got carried away with the "do not finish in front" thing...
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