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September 29th, 2016, 05:13 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Gaz View Post
You could also add Max Biaggi - 4 x 250cc titles from 7 attempts as an example of staying in the lower classes first as well as Jorge Martinez and Carlo Ubbiali as people who chose not to 'graduate' and yet had very successful careers (just throwing some more onto the fire for you Arrib)

It may just be me but I do miss the tiddler classes of years back as whilst we can say that Moto3/Moto2 are the current, the past classes provided some sensational racing and brilliant riders.
You guys are missing the part about a rider being "special" Biaggi was not special in GP. If you spend 5 years in the lowest class looking for your first top 5 in that series, in my book, you are not special. I dont think Binder is special. If some of you wish to believe he is, that is your choice. Time will tell. Lets revisit this thread in 5 years and see if he is competing for championships in GP
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September 29th, 2016, 05:18 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
I'm quite aware of how long Casey spent in 125 and 250. However, you didn't say that did you? - you originally said this...



Added to the fact that Casey was 21 when he moved up. Your point about Binder?

Similarly, I am more than aware of Nieto's decision to remain in the lower classes by choice. I wonder what the Povol verdict would have been after four - five years though?

Quite frankly Pov, your talent scouting formula is a pile of cack and you're making it up as you go along.
Is Moto3 not considered a lower class anymore, maybe i missed something.

Casey moved to GP at 21, not 250's, whats your point
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September 29th, 2016, 05:20 PM   #43
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Jackass is a great lad and eminently likeable, I really hope he does come good. It's going to have to be soon though as there's quite a crop of talented younger riders just dying for a chance at the big time. The teams recognise this and lately seem more inclined to take a punt on them to see if they're the real deal. Maybe Marquez and Maverick's performance have brought this even more to the forefront when they're choosing their riders each year or so.
Agree with Jackass, he is good value. I think he is so keen for a seat with Reposl that he has started his own unique spanglish language during interviews to help his chances of coming onboard the Spanish armada. Its funny seeing him talk like a regular Aussie at PI and all the way to Jerez, then doing an interview at Aragon and needing subtitles to understand him.

I'm really hoping it all goes well for him.
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September 29th, 2016, 11:27 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by povol View Post
I dont think Binder is special. If some of you wish to believe he is, that is your choice. Time will tell. Lets revisit this thread in 5 years and see if he is competing for championships in GP
Again, I don't think that anyone is suggesting that he will be competing for championships in MotoGP - I really don't think that he'll ever receive the necessary backing. However, the point that I myself and others are making is that he appears to have the necessary qualities and attributes which one would look for in a Moto GP rider.
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September 30th, 2016, 12:27 AM   #45
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Honda experiment by pushing jack too fast, but they held Marquez back another year, even though he was the fastest thing in Moto2.

Which strategy has worked better? Jack is getting hurt and is wasting a potentially good career trying to race a very fast bike before he learned how to ride any fast bike. Meanwhile, Marc could beat all sorts of records in the next decade.
All true but one also needs to look at the environment surrounding the two riders whom you are comparing.

Marc Marquez has/was annointed as the next big thing very early in the piece (similar to Rossi) which automatically opened a myriad of doors to equipment and people to assist his development and career. Miller on the other hand was not annointed but rather recognised for what he achieved on a sub-par Honda and it is this which opened doors, but it did not bring with it the support services that have surrounded Marquez (Gabbarini aside) and as such has found himself on customer supported equipment rather than factory.

IMO only but Miller is not Marquez and never will be as Marquez is one of those talents that come along all so rarely, but Miller is the good honest hard working and talented toiler in the lines of Hayden (although I do think that Miller is more precociously talented than Hayden which is not to disrespect Hayden)
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September 30th, 2016, 12:39 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by povol View Post
You guys are missing the part about a rider being "special" Biaggi was not special in GP. If you spend 5 years in the lowest class looking for your first top 5 in that series, in my book, you are not special. I dont think Binder is special. If some of you wish to believe he is, that is your choice. Time will tell. Lets revisit this thread in 5 years and see if he is competing for championships in GP
4 250cc titles in Motorcycle Grands Prix are pretty damn special in my book.

Then to come up to the 500cc class and in your very first race beat a rider of Mick Doohan's ability is further evidence for me that he is/was special (Biaggi contended for a number of 500cc/MotoGP titles)

Of course, each their own in terms of their own definition of special but (IMO only here) Biaggi was special, but he is and was a two-stroke rider who was quite negated within the four stroke era (I also put McCoy in this category but nowhere near the level of a biaggi)
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September 30th, 2016, 12:49 AM   #47
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4 250cc titles in Motorcycle Grands Prix are pretty damn special in my book.

Then to come up to the 500cc class and in your very first race beat a rider of Mick Doohan's ability is further evidence for me that he is/was special (Biaggi contended for a number of 500cc/MotoGP titles)

Of course, each their own in terms of their own definition of special but (IMO only here) Biaggi was special, but he is and was a two-stroke rider who was quite negated within the four stroke era (I also put McCoy in this category but nowhere near the level of a biaggi)
It was awesome seeing Mccoy power slide his way around the track, he did have a lot of offs and injuries though.
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September 30th, 2016, 01:04 AM   #48
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To be fair I think Marc is a much more naturally talented rider/racer to Miller. I also think that they have the intermediate Moto2 class for a reason.
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Jack Miller has had a bad season it's got nothing to do with skipping moto2, he's already spent a year in GP outriding a former world champ on the same equipment. If it was his first season maybe you could argue it's because he skipped moto2 but it isn't.
Good discussion, here. It seems Moto3 talk is more civilized.

You are making my point p4p1. Putting him directly into MotoGP was a mistake. He got hurt, and was slow as mud. Too big of a jump, these days. He has to be better than several MotoGP riders that went through all three classes, but he isn't doing as well. Just one year in Moto2, and I think he would be in better shape.
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September 30th, 2016, 04:23 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
Again, I don't think that anyone is suggesting that he will be competing for championships in MotoGP - I really don't think that he'll ever receive the necessary backing. However, the point that I myself and others are making is that he appears to have the necessary qualities and attributes which one would look for in a Moto GP rider.
conversation was if Binder was special
I agree he may be a GP rider someday and just as easily may not. This entire conversation was if Binder was special and i said he wasnt and you took the torch for the he is special side. If he is special, he will get backing.
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September 30th, 2016, 07:53 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by povol View Post
conversation was if Binder was special
I agree he may be a GP rider someday and just as easily may not. This entire conversation was if Binder was special and i said he wasnt and you took the torch for the he is special side. If he is special, he will get backing.
I didn't take any 'side' and I don't believe I used the word 'special'. Refer to post 17.
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