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September 27th, 2016, 08:38 AM   #21
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In bike racing , the years between 15-20 is when a rider usually shows the progression that determines if he is special or not. Most if not all of the greats dont get stuck in lower classes for 4-5 years, they come in, ride at the front and move on.
Ha! tell that to Angel Nieto!!!

That Aussie guy, what was his name? Stoner or something – y’know, the one that spent four years in the lower classes having contested National Championships beforehand and didn’t graduate until the premier class until 21...Underwhelming.

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I have reservations about Rins as well as he has shown that he is more of a points racer.
That'll be precisely how Nicky secured a Premier Class World Championship then.
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September 27th, 2016, 03:43 PM   #22
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Ha! tell that to Angel Nieto!!!

That Aussie guy, what was his name? Stoner or something – y’know, the one that spent four years in the lower classes having contested National Championships beforehand and didn’t graduate until the premier class until 21...Underwhelming.



That'll be precisely how Nicky secured a Premier Class World Championship then.
Casey spent 4 years total in the lower classes, not 5 years in the lowest class. Nieto stayed on mini bikes by choice
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September 27th, 2016, 03:44 PM   #23
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Ha! tell that to Angel Nieto!!!

That Aussie guy, what was his name? Stoner or something – y’know, the one that spent four years in the lower classes having contested National Championships beforehand and didn’t graduate until the premier class until 21...Underwhelming.



That'll be precisely how Nicky secured a Premier Class World Championship then.
As much as i love Nicky, i have never considered him special in GP, which is the conversation
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September 28th, 2016, 12:05 AM   #24
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Casey spent 4 years total in the lower classes, not 5 years in the lowest class. Nieto stayed on mini bikes by choice
I'm quite aware of how long Casey spent in 125 and 250. However, you didn't say that did you? - you originally said this...

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Originally Posted by povol View Post
Most if not all of the greats dont get stuck in lower classes for 4-5 years, they come in, ride at the front and move on.
Added to the fact that Casey was 21 when he moved up. Your point about Binder?

Similarly, I am more than aware of Nieto's decision to remain in the lower classes by choice. I wonder what the Povol verdict would have been after four - five years though?

Quite frankly Pov, your talent scouting formula is a pile of cack and you're making it up as you go along.
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September 28th, 2016, 01:15 AM   #25
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I'm quite aware of how long Casey spent in 125 and 250. However, you didn't say that did you? - you originally said this...



Added to the fact that Casey was 21 when he moved up. Your point about Binder?

Similarly, I am more than aware of Nieto's decision to remain in the lower classes by choice. I wonder what the Povol verdict would have been after four - five years though?

Quite frankly Pov, your talent scouting formula is a pile of cack and you're making it up as you go along.
Yeah I wish more lads these days would stay in lower classes to try and win it multiple times, become a specialist. Rather than just trying to get an average seat in MotoGP.

Fair play to zarco for waiting another year and trying to defend his crown.

Some of the best riders started old too, bit before my time but wasn't Dothan a late starter? Bayliss was also as was shakey Byrne (maybe not a considered a great but pretty special on uk tracks on a superbike)
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September 28th, 2016, 01:44 AM   #26
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Yeah I wish more lads these days would stay in lower classes to try and win it multiple times, become a specialist. Rather than just trying to get an average seat in MotoGP.
I think Jack Millers jump from Moto3 to GP hasn't really worked in his favour. He may have won a race but it was a wet race with a huge attrition rate nevethless he rode well, I don't see him repeating those type of performance with the VDS team in dry conditions. I think he would have been much better off doing 1 or 2 seasons in Moto2. he is only young, I don't know what the big rush was for to get into MotoGP.
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September 28th, 2016, 02:43 AM   #27
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Casey spent 4 years total in the lower classes, not 5 years in the lowest class. Nieto stayed on mini bikes by choice

You could also add Max Biaggi - 4 x 250cc titles from 7 attempts as an example of staying in the lower classes first as well as Jorge Martinez and Carlo Ubbiali as people who chose not to 'graduate' and yet had very successful careers (just throwing some more onto the fire for you Arrib)

It may just be me but I do miss the tiddler classes of years back as whilst we can say that Moto3/Moto2 are the current, the past classes provided some sensational racing and brilliant riders.
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September 28th, 2016, 02:46 AM   #28
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I think Jack Millers jump from Moto3 to GP hasn't really worked in his favour. He may have won a race but it was a wet race with a huge attrition rate nevethless he rode well, I don't see him repeating those type of performance with the VDS team in dry conditions. I think he would have been much better off doing 1 or 2 seasons in Moto2. he is only young, I don't know what the big rush was for to get into MotoGP.

Thing is, to many people Moto2 is somewhat of a wasteland so why spend time in the wasteland when your aim is higher?

IMO only but I believe that the move was correct because Honda trusted and invested a 3 year contract so they, by that 3 year contract indicate that they do not expect a great ROI for a few years (next year being the critical year).

Personally I subscribe to the theory that says if you want to play wit the big boys, the sooner you get there the more chance to play you get and thus the more chance you get to become one of the big boys.
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September 28th, 2016, 03:30 AM   #29
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Thing is, to many people Moto2 is somewhat of a wasteland so why spend time in the wasteland when your aim is higher?

IMO only but I believe that the move was correct because Honda trusted and invested a 3 year contract so they, by that 3 year contract indicate that they do not expect a great ROI for a few years (next year being the critical year).

Personally I subscribe to the theory that says if you want to play wit the big boys, the sooner you get there the more chance to play you get and thus the more chance you get to become one of the big boys.
I had the same opinion as you initially and saw what had happened to Ant West in the Moto2's and agree it can be a bit like purgatory where if a rider doesn't get picked up can become stale and just hang around.

I could see Honda saw something in Miller or they wouldn't have believed in him so much to give him a deal. His future in the series depends on next season like you say, I think it is going to be really tough for him to impress based on his team and his consistency record with spills and injuries, next season is going to be a tall order for him. Even if he completes all races and has a top ten season result, where will he go besides KTM? I don't know who's contracts are even up by next year.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, but would he have been better off getting noticed in the 2's and making his debut on a factory backed bike like Vinales did, seemed to work well for him who is also a talented young rider.

Last edited by AJV80; September 28th, 2016 at 03:35 AM.
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September 28th, 2016, 04:06 AM   #30
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You could also add Max Biaggi - 4 x 250cc titles from 7 attempts as an example of staying in the lower classes first as well as Jorge Martinez and Carlo Ubbiali as people who chose not to 'graduate' and yet had very successful careers (just throwing some more onto the fire for you Arrib)

It may just be me but I do miss the tiddler classes of years back as whilst we can say that Moto3/Moto2 are the current, the past classes provided some sensational racing and brilliant riders.
Not to mention that Max started racing at 18.

Edit to add: Nobby Ueda!
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