MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > Moto2

Moto2 Moto2 Forum - Moto2 Class Motorcycle Racing Forum


Like Tree22Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
September 26th, 2016, 07:16 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
AJV80's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2016
From: Queensland Australia

Posts: 645
Likes: 314

I Ride: GSX-R 750
The Moto2's make a great feeder series for the MotoGP. An intermediate bike sized in power range right between the Moto3's and the MotoGP, I hope they don't change it too much just for the sake of it.
AJV80 is offline  
 
September 26th, 2016, 07:22 AM   #12
Blue Smoker
 
Arrabbiata1's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
From: Out of Nowhere

Posts: 6,764
Likes: 2442

I Ride: The original
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finish line View Post
It is a standard Cbr600rr, just tuned. Modified for racing. They are using HRC race kit parts like ported cylinder head, camshafts, valve springs, ECU, AC generator and a taller first gear. Pistons, crankshaft, connecting rods, gearbox....are standard CBR items.
.
Furthermore, they are all prepped very near the Aragon circuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richy56 View Post

Moto2 is slow super sport with nice frames. It needs spicing up. bring back the 250s for me.
You forget how that series was dominated by Aprilia and the exorbitant costs of leasing a competitive machine.

What astonishes me is that the VR Moto2 franchise has signed a deal with SpeedUp to supply the chassis.
Arrabbiata1 is offline  
September 26th, 2016, 07:23 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
AJV80's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2016
From: Queensland Australia

Posts: 645
Likes: 314

I Ride: GSX-R 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richy56 View Post
500 twins would be loads better, after all it is prototype racing. I must admit, I prefer moto 3 over 2. Those little bike are miles tricker.

Moto2 is slow super sport with nice frames. It needs spicing up. bring back the 250s for me, all this bs about emissions, gp racing shouldn't give two shiny shits about emissions. That's what proddie racing is for.

Plus how much emmisions are created hauling this show half way round the world every month
Do you think a prototype 500 twin would produce similar power to what they currently have in moto2 with an inline 4 600?
AJV80 is offline  
September 26th, 2016, 07:26 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2016
From: North England

Posts: 419
Likes: 119

I Ride: Yz250, rgv250
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJV80 View Post
Do you think a prototype 500 twin would produce similar power to what they currently have in moto2 with an inline 4 600?
What do the moto3,s produce? 60hp ? Double that then yeah, plus they would be lighter
Richy56 is offline  
September 26th, 2016, 07:31 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2016
From: North England

Posts: 419
Likes: 119

I Ride: Yz250, rgv250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
Furthermore, they are all prepped very near the Aragon circuit.



You forget how that series was dominated by Aprilia and the exorbitant costs of leasing a competitive machine.

What astonishes me is that the VR Moto2 franchise has signed a deal with SpeedUp to supply the chassis.
Aprillia only dominated cos Honda lost interest. Honda got their act together with Aoyama and won the last year.

. Moto3 costs the earth but no one cares. its prototype racing, if people wanna do it they will. I bet it costs more to build and maintain a MotoGP bike than a 500 stroker. There were more satellite bikes too.
Richy56 is offline  
September 26th, 2016, 07:42 AM   #16
Blue Smoker
 
Arrabbiata1's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
From: Out of Nowhere

Posts: 6,764
Likes: 2442

I Ride: The original
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richy56 View Post
Aprillia only dominated cos Honda lost interest. Honda got their act together with Aoyama and won the last year.

. Moto3 costs the earth but no one cares. its prototype racing, if people wanna do it they will. I bet it costs more to build and maintain a MotoGP bike than a 500 stroker. There were more satellite bikes too.
Honda gave one final push most definitely - and the bike that Dovi rode for Team Scot had suffered from a chronic lack of development. Aprilia assumed hegemonic control and drive the prices up but securing an RS250 was never cheap. Moto2 is a far and more accessible cheaper series. Not to say I didn't prefer pure prototype strokers.

Your point about MotoGP bikes and the 500cc class comes back to emissions and marketing. The class was no longer viable and during the peak of the Superbike series the road going counterparts were a huge commercial boost to factory sales. Indeed, the RCV was developed in conjunction with the factory (not purely HRC) which was unprecedented, because they wanted to immediately produce a road going version. 800cc really put the costs into the stratosphere, Dorna have finally effected some great measures to redress this. Interestingly, the strokers could have easily continued to be developed but the costs of taming them would have been similarly exponential not to mention the man hours involved in rebuilds which are of course not as frequent with a four stroke..
JPSLotus likes this.
Arrabbiata1 is offline  
September 26th, 2016, 08:01 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2016
From: North England

Posts: 419
Likes: 119

I Ride: Yz250, rgv250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
Honda gave one final push most definitely - and the bike that Dovi rode for Team Scot had suffered from a chronic lack of development. Aprilia assumed hegemonic control and drive the prices up but securing an RS250 was never cheap. Moto2 is a far and more accessible cheaper series. Not to say I didn't prefer pure prototype strokers.

Your point about MotoGP bikes and the 500cc class comes back to emissions and marketing. The class was no longer viable and during the peak of the Superbike series the road going counterparts were a huge commercial boost to factory sales. Indeed, the RCV was developed in conjunction with the factory (not purely HRC) which was unprecedented, because they wanted to immediately produce a road going version. 800cc really put the costs into the stratosphere, Dorna have finally effected some great measures to redress this. Interestingly, the strokers could have easily continued to be developed but the costs of taming them would have been similarly exponential not to mention the man hours involved in rebuilds which are of course not as frequent with a four stroke..
Good stuff thanks. Agree with most points, not sure about the 500 strokers, true they weren't viable and fashionable any more.

Not sure about rebuild costs, highly tuned four strokes are a bastard to maintain, just look at high level mx bikes. Strokers need more intervention, but less time. If they were limited to number of engines like they are now, manufacturers would make it work.
Richy56 is offline  
September 26th, 2016, 08:26 AM   #18
Blue Smoker
 
Arrabbiata1's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
From: Out of Nowhere

Posts: 6,764
Likes: 2442

I Ride: The original
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richy56 View Post
Good stuff thanks. Agree with most points, not sure about the 500 strokers, true they weren't viable and fashionable any more.

Not sure about rebuild costs, highly tuned four strokes are a bastard to maintain, just look at high level mx bikes. Strokers need more intervention, but less time. If they were limited to number of engines like they are now, manufacturers would make it work.
It raises a fascinating debate over policing the regulations since the full strip downs and rebuilds would be required.

I recall reading an interview with Harald Bartol I think who was of the opinion that mechanically the 500cc bikes had so much further potential and actually could have troubled the 4 strokes but even then the the electronics to tame them would have been prohibitively expensive.
JPSLotus and Richy56 like this.
Arrabbiata1 is offline  
September 26th, 2016, 05:54 PM   #19
SPECTRE
 
Dr No's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Crab Key

Posts: 2,994
Likes: 725

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrabbiata1 View Post
It raises a fascinating debate over policing the regulations since the full strip downs and rebuilds would be required.

I recall reading an interview with Harald Bartol I think who was of the opinion that mechanically the 500cc bikes had so much further potential and actually could have troubled the 4 strokes but even then the the electronics to tame them would have been prohibitively expensive.
I'm not so sure about Bartol's pronouncement.The gas dynamics in a two stroke don't really lend themselves to the same electronic interventions as a four stroke.
The pinnacle of two stroke racers was the Aprilia 125 with the rear disc valve, Mid-50hp and not much more than (complex) gear-by-gear ignition mapping and PV control.
But then, who knows what could've developed had there been more factory involvement (not to mention the intervening half decade)
Dr No is offline  
September 26th, 2016, 06:00 PM   #20
SPECTRE
 
Dr No's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2012
From: Crab Key

Posts: 2,994
Likes: 725

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richy56 View Post
What do the moto3,s produce? 60hp ? Double that then yeah, plus they would be lighter
They'd all end up as V-twins. Anything parallel would be a vibrating mess.
Dr No is offline  
Reply

  MotoGP Forum > MotoGP Forum > Moto2

Tags
ajo, bull, ktm, red



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Red Bull Last man standing Dion Motorsports 11 December 9th, 2007 09:58 AM
Red Bull Indianapolis GP normanhotep MotoGP 11 July 17th, 2007 03:51 PM
Red Bull Renault Alex Motorsports 3 November 3rd, 2006 01:54 AM
Red Bull Suzuki Austin MotoGP 0 June 10th, 2005 07:45 AM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2017 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.