MotoGP Forum  

Go Back   MotoGP Forum > Motorcycle Racing Forum > AMA Supercross

AMA Supercross AMA Supercross Forum - AMA Supercross Racing Forum


Like Tree2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
January 10th, 2016, 07:05 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Jumkie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Mom's House

Posts: 24,726
Likes: 3980

2016 Supercross Round 1 in Anaheim

Round 1 was great. Good shuffle for the lead. Anderson must love to see Seeley ahead of him because it's just a matter of time.

I feel bad for Bubba, what might have been. Dude has zero luck. Trying to cut inside Dungey had nowhere to go. Initially I thought that was on Ryan but Mdub set me straight. Speaking of which, Canard takes Ryan high, crashes, comes back and takes a 2nd. Tomac repeatable 4th finish.


Barcia, hahaha
Jumkie is offline  
 
January 10th, 2016, 11:39 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
povol's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
From: Tennessee

Posts: 10,376
Likes: 1575

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
Round 1 was great. Good shuffle for the lead. Anderson must love to see Seeley ahead of him because it's just a matter of time.

I feel bad for Bubba, what might have been. Dude has zero luck. Trying to cut inside Dungey had nowhere to go. Initially I thought that was on Ryan but Mdub set me straight. Speaking of which, Canard takes Ryan high, crashes, comes back and takes a 2nd. Tomac repeatable 4th finish.


Barcia, hahaha
How can that not be Dungey's fault . He t boned a rider in the middle of a turn
povol is offline  
January 10th, 2016, 11:43 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Jumkie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Mom's House

Posts: 24,726
Likes: 3980

Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
How can that not be Dungey's fault . He t boned a rider in the middle of a turn
That was my initial thought too. Check it out again. Bubba cuts late into turn to try and square up ahead of lead rider, when he cuts Dungey is already committed into turn. Had Bubba stayed on his trajectory nothing happens. It was what we'd call a racing incident. Bubba's late decision and Dungey's trajectory converged.


Focus on James' last cut inside Anderson.






Either way, it's a hard call. Here is the key for me: I think Dungey had the space to square up with no contact if Bubba doesn't cut inside. That space was closed up by James' action. Unfortunate for James. I was pulling for him. Dungey we can say is not dirty.




Btw what's your opinion on Weston Peick? Me, I think 3 race ban. No less.

Last edited by Jumkie; January 10th, 2016 at 11:58 AM.
Jumkie is offline  
January 10th, 2016, 06:38 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
povol's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
From: Tennessee

Posts: 10,376
Likes: 1575

I live under the rule that it is the passer's responsibility to make a clean pass. I know motorx is a different world of what's acceptable and what's not, but Stewart had the position by 3 bike lengths heading into that corner which to me means Stewart can take any line he wants. Dungey does not have a history and I'm not calling for any sanctions against him, but he took Stewart out and I would bet that he apologized to him after the race for doing so.
povol is offline  
January 10th, 2016, 09:41 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: California

Posts: 1,452
Likes: 556

Quote:
Originally Posted by povol View Post
How can that not be Dungey's fault . He t boned a rider in the middle of a turn
Exactly. Are you kidding me Jum? If you blame Bubba for this I'm going to have to publicly question every assertion you make about GP going forward. Ryan had absolutely no fuking line. He bombed into that corner straight!
levigarrett is offline  
January 10th, 2016, 09:45 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2009
From: California

Posts: 1,452
Likes: 556

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumkie View Post
That was my initial thought too. Check it out again. Bubba cuts late into turn to try and square up ahead of lead rider, when he cuts Dungey is already committed into turn. Had Bubba stayed on his trajectory nothing happens. It was what we'd call a racing incident. Bubba's late decision and Dungey's trajectory converged.


Focus on James' last cut inside Anderson.






Either way, it's a hard call. Here is the key for me: I think Dungey had the space to square up with no contact if Bubba doesn't cut inside. That space was closed up by James' action. Unfortunate for James. I was pulling for him. Dungey we can say is not dirty.




Btw what's your opinion on Weston Peick? Me, I think 3 race ban. No less.
Oh for fuks sake man. How far back was Ryan? He had absolutely ample time to make that corner work. Where was he going? Look at his line. I hope that dude gets crushed this season by any means possible. Whatever it takes, he shouldn't have the #1 plate anyway, the dude is a hack. I'm going to watch every race this season just to see if someone takes his head off. Fingers crossed he doesn't finish the season.
levigarrett is offline  
January 10th, 2016, 10:42 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Jumkie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Mom's House

Posts: 24,726
Likes: 3980

Levi, you're gonna question my takes on GP because of a SX opinion? Haha

Question #1: Do you not see James cut back in to beat Anderson? Before you go on, answer that.



Bro, my initial thought was Ryan soley to blame. But i changed my mind after watching replay. That's why I posted the video. Was Ryan supposed to know James would take the space inside Anderson which is where he (Bubba) cuts in and emerges? Yes, there was a CHANGE in Stewart's trajectory. I don't think you realize that if James doesn't do that Ryan makes no contact with him. Before you go ballistic, look at the video and specifically watch James. Forget about Ryan for a minute, just watch James change his line, cut inside Anderson. I'm not blaming James for doing something wrong, I'm explaining why the collision occurs. Along with that explanation, I'm asserting Ryan didn't do anything wrong. Both of these actions can coexist without either having done something 'wrong'.



Notice the distance between James and Anderson. Why did that space occur? If you compare pictures, you see that this distance between Anderson and James occurs because Bubba cuts severely inside. So severely in fact that you can see James shift all his weight and a slight bobble (look at the video). I'm not bullshiting you, it's a noticeable movement in body English because James is cutting in sharp and accelerating. Now in your mind's eye put James back behind Anderson. Do you think Ryan makes contact with James in that case? No way. In fact Ryan almost missed James (who was accelerating out of the way). If James is on the same line as Anderson that contact doesn't happen! This is SX/MX. UNLIKE roadracing where there is a very narrow optimal line. James decided to cut inside. The lines know as "lanes" in MX are various. Hence why you hear them say riders making "lane choices" (you don't hear that in GP do you?) You hear in GP saying a rider took a different "line" but that is narrow compared to the notion of "lanes" which can be exact opposites sides on a dirt track. Ryan's entry was viable and reasonable, of this there should be no doubt. Both took a calculated risk, neither was out of control. The only way this could have been avoided is if both read eachother's mind. The collision occurred because both went for a reasonable viable space! In a classic T-bone incident the guy T-boning has no business in that space. None.

Ryan's line appears to T-bone Bubba, and again, it was my first reaction. But all that changes when you realize that both James and Ryan went for that same space exactly at the same time. This is NOT like roadracing, bikes in MX can actually square up in very little space. In MX the rider can spin the back wheel (like a skid) and in less than a foot the bike can be facing another direction. I'm not saying it's James' or Ryan's "fault". Let me repeat that, I'm not saying it's James "fault". I am saying that both went for that same space in viable attempt. You're thinking Ryan's entry was not viable. I disagree, in fact Ryan nearly missed James (in real time). Those 2 meters James creates inside Anderson is what causes the collision, that's because James cuts inside of Anderson. I'm saying both went for the same space that's conceivable/viable in this type of racing. If James follows Anderson Ryan makes no contact. In SX those angles and lines are more variable than roadracing, which I think your judging this incident by. I do think it's a "racing incident" for SX/MX, not for Roadracing. If you want to blame Ryan for not predicting that James would cut inside Anderson, I'm fine with that. We can place blame on Ryan on that basis. But this was not a T-bone in the classic sense because the person getting T-boned turned into that space suddenly. Not when you consider James' sudden and absolutely observable CHANGE in trajectory mid turn.

Question #2: Who is making the pass attempt? View it another way, if Anderson is not in front of Stewart, do you think James makes that change in trajectory? Answer that.



You may say like Pov, all contact made by persons attempting a pass is the fault of the person attempting the pass. Ok, I'll buy that. However, who was attempting a pass here? James on Anderson? (If you say no, then we are not watching the same video.) Or Ryan on Stewart? I don't think Ryan was attempting a pass. James was attempting the pass there on Anderson. Ryan looks to be attempting to 'square up' on both of them INSIDE to come ALONG SIDE. That is, no pass attempt, but rather come along side both. And he would have probably done it if he would have had just the extra meter that unfortunately James took when he cut inside. I think all you're seeing is a T-bone, but you're not looking at why Bubba appears in that space. Stop looking at this incident through a GP lense. GP bikes cannot turn in as sharply as James did in attempt to accelerate ahead of the lead rider. GP bikes can't square up on a dime like Ryan could have done had he had the space that Bubba occupied (occupied because a MX bike can do that mid turn).

Now I'm not married to this opinion like i generally do other takes. I like them both, almost equally. Actually, im surprised you feel so strongly against Dungey. He is the Nicky of SX in terms of the nice guy. Of all the riders, he is probably the least aggressive by a margin. In fact both Emig and Carmichael have repeatedly criticize him for it. Both of which call for blood on the track much to my dismay. The one guy they repeatedly accuse of not being sanguine enough, not being forceful enough IS Dungey. Name me 1 rider less aggressive than Dungey. Just 1. I think you're fucking confusing Dungey for Chad Reed. Perhaps why you're hoping Ryan gets taken out.

Regardless, I feel bad for James. I really was looking forward to this season because he was back from his bullshit suspension. James normally doesn't hold back (hence why he cut in under so sharply ) and his aggression is something to marvel. Though I know most of us have said often if the kid dialed it back just a hair he'd finish more. Again, not blaming him here for doing something rash, I'm simply explaining why I think Ryan wasn't undisputable blame worthy. If you blame Ryan, whatever, I can live with that. But I think the incident was something that is debatable, not as black and white given its SX (not to be confused with GP). Btw I also feel a sense of being robbed of Bubba's results given he was in the top 3, healthy, and with so much promise ahead.

So there are two questions above I ask to be answered. Your thoughts?

Last edited by Jumkie; January 11th, 2016 at 01:17 AM.
Jumkie is offline  
January 11th, 2016, 12:25 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Jumkie's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Your Mom's House

Posts: 24,726
Likes: 3980

Btw, can we also talk about this:

Jumkie is offline  
January 11th, 2016, 12:32 AM   #9
#22
Senior Member
 
#22's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
From: In Cider

Posts: 3,994
Likes: 1769

Quote:
Originally Posted by levigarrett View Post
Exactly. Are you kidding me Jum? If you blame Bubba for this I'm going to have to publicly question every assertion you make about GP going forward. Ryan had absolutely no fuking line. He bombed into that corner straight!
Agreed
#22 is offline  
January 11th, 2016, 05:05 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
L8Braker's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2006
From: Tar Heel State

Posts: 2,515
Likes: 34

It was an interesting start to the 2016 SX season.
How about Cooper Webb....North Carolina representing!
As far as the Dungey/Stewart contact....it's racing, shit happens. Let's hope Stewart can come back next week, doubtful he will pass concussion protocol though.
MMA bout between Peick/Friese....Friese has had that coming for a long time, Peick however should have waited till after the race and off camera to settle that, not good for your sponsers to pummel a guy on live TV.
duccmann likes this.
L8Braker is offline  
Reply

  MotoGP Forum > Motorcycle Racing Forum > AMA Supercross

Tags
2016, ama, anaheim, round, supercross



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2012 Supercross Anaheim povol AMA Supercross 21 January 24th, 2012 05:51 PM
Indy Supercross Round L8Braker AMA Supercross 12 February 27th, 2010 05:29 AM
ANAHEIM 2 spoilers JohnnyKnockdown Motorsports 3 January 27th, 2010 07:27 AM
anaheim 1 frosty58 Motorsports 26 January 17th, 2010 03:41 PM
Supercross 2008 Round One Jumkie AMA Supercross 9 January 7th, 2008 10:02 AM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed



Copyright © 2005-2018 Powerslide. All rights reserved.
MotoGP Forum is a MotoGP enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent MotoGP or Dorna Sports, S.L. of Madrid, Spain.